Run Your Life Show With Andy Vasily
Run Your Life Show With Andy Vasily
#268: Redefining Resilience: From Olympic Dreams to Emmy-Winning Success with Nina Sossamon-Pogue
On the show today is the brilliant Nina Sossamon-Pogue, a multifaceted leader who has excelled across diverse fields - from gymnastics to broadcasting, corporate leadership, and authorship. .
In our conversation, we delve deeply into the true essence of resilience through Nina's extraordinary life experiences. Nina has a special gift to blend personal story, scientific research, and stoic philosophy. She presents a fresh perspective on what it means to be truly resilient. Rather than offering simple platitudes, Nina provides actionable strategies for embracing change and overcoming adversity, drawn from her own journey of transformation.
Her story begins in the world of elite gymnastics, where she trained and competed alongside Olympic gold medalists Mary Lou Retton and Bart Connor. Despite being widely projected to make the 1984 Olympic team, Nina faced her first major setback when she failed to qualify. Rather than letting this define her, she channeled her passion for the sport into earning a full scholarship to Louisiana State University. However, fate had other plans, and a severe knee injury brought her gymnastics career to an abrupt end.
What followed demonstrates the very essence of resilience that Nina now teaches. She successfully pivoted to broadcast journalism, where her dedication and talent led to her winning an Emmy Award. Building on this success, she then transitioned into corporate leadership and became a best-selling author, each step of her journey informing her unique perspective on resilience.
Throughout the episode, Nina weaves together several core themes that challenge conventional wisdom about resilience. She emphasizes the importance of authenticity in both success and struggle, integrating personal experiences with research-based insights. Her approach balances stoic principles with emotional intelligence, offering practical tools for maintaining course in high-stress environments. What makes her message particularly compelling is how she presents complex ideas about resilience in ways that are both accessible and actionable.
I hope you enjoy this episode. Thanks for listening.
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I know where the joy comes from is me helping other people succeed. And when I went through a very difficult time myself, I realized if I was just gonna, if I was gonna stick around, because it was that bad of a time, if I was gonna stick around, that's a big part of what I want in my life to be.
SPEAKER_04:I should say welcome to if you are a new listener, and thank you very much if you are a new listener for taking the chance on this podcast. I really do appreciate it, and I hope you come back to listen to future episodes. If you're a returning listener, as always, thank you for your time and energy and your willingness to tune into any episode that you can. It really does mean a lot. Before getting into today's podcast with the inspiring Nina Sossaman Pogue, you'll learn all about her in today's episode. She's brilliant. But before getting into that conversation, I want to hit the pause button to promote two upcoming episodes that you will hear over the next few weeks. The episodes are with Derek Sivers and Father Greg Boyle, two people that have made an extraordinary difference in their own fields. So, Derek, a bit about him. He really embodies the power of intentional unconventionality in entrepreneurship and life philosophy. He first started a company back in university by accident, as he says. It was called C D Baby, that went on to grow to a$100 million business before selling it for$22 million in 2008. And the most impressive thing is that he donated that money to music education. Through Derek's books, blog posts, and viral TED Talk, he continues to advocate for a direct approach to decision making that prioritizes personal values over conventional expectations. So I really do hope you tune into that episode. Derek has been on the Tim Ferris show, I think, three or four times. Tim and Derek know each other really well. And uh it was there, listening to Tim's podcast, that I heard Derek and I thought I need to reach out to him. And uh very happy that he accepted the invite. So definitely stay tuned for that one. That'll probably come out in two weeks' time. The next guest that I want to tell you about is the amazing Father Greg Boyle. Father Greg Boyle has revolutionized gang intervention through Homeboy Industries, which he founded in 1988 in Los Angeles, California. Amazingly, Homeboy Bakeries has grown into one of the world's largest rehabilitation and re-entry programs, built on his radical philosophy that nothing stops a bullet like a job, and his belief in unconditional love. His approach was captured in his best-selling book called Tattoos on the Heart, which is extraordinary, and embodied in statements like, You are so much more than the worst thing you've ever done. And this has really fundamentally shifted the paradigm of gang intervention from punishment to dignity, demonstrating that when people are treated with love and given genuine opportunities, they can overcome seemingly impossible circumstances. Father Greg was recently awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Joe Biden. And he will join me on my podcast in a few weeks' time to talk about his newest book called Cherished Belonging: The Healing Power of Love in Divided Time. So I really hope you tune into that episode with Father Greg Boyle and the one with Derek Sivers. So now on to today's episode with Nina Sossaman Pogue. She is extraordinary herself and has such a wealth of experiences that have led her to do so many great things in the world. Nina is an inspirational thought leader sharing a unique take on resilience. And this comes from, truly comes from a place of deep experience as a former U.S. gymnast, Emmy-winning news anchor, accomplished corporate leader, and best-selling author. Nina knows exactly what handling pressure means, in particular the pressure of success. And she has worked on sharing her journey with multiple audiences around the United States. Authentically, she shares her successes, struggles, and her research. And she gives her audiences the motivation, mindset, and tools to embrace change and take on challenges so they can stay the course and succeed in today's fast-paced, constantly changing, high-stress world. She is an experienced communicator with a great sense of humor as well, and I think you'll get a glimpse into that in today's show. So getting back to her work on resilience, she really unpacks the texture and nuances behind what true resilience actually means. And in Nina's life, she has experienced one setback after another. And she speaks very openly and honestly about that. So in our conversation, we talk a little bit about early days in her life. We move into her gymnastics career that was really a priority in her life in the early 80s up until about 1984. She was competing on the U.S. gymnastics team with Mary Lou Retton and Bart Connors. Both Mary Lou and Bart, I think, won the gold medals multiple times. Unfortunately, she didn't make the 1984 team, and this was a really tough transition for her getting over that time. But she didn't give up and she kept moving forward, got a full ride scholarship for gymnastics to LSU. But unfortunately, after her first year of competing, she completely blew out her knee and her gymnastics career was over. So she talks about that idea, that transition being so difficult, so dark, not knowing what to do with her life. And one day a professor at the university kind of stopped by and started chatting with her and got to know her and really challenged her to think about what was next for her. And ultimately, this led to her pursuing a new path as a news anchor, winning the Emmy Award. So it just shows the resilience she has to never give up and to let her skills transcend anything she does and apply it in any work she does to the greatest degree in order to experience true success. But even though success came to her, she had many dark moments in her life that she had to work her way through. So we really talk about that journey, we talk about that idea of resilience. She shares so many life lessons learned that we can all apply in our own life, regardless of what it is we do. So I'm not going to tell you too much more about the episode because you'll find out everything about her as you listen. But again, thank you very much for tuning in, and I hope you really enjoy this episode. Please connect with Nina afterwards, share your thoughts on social media in regards to this episode, what resonated with you. But having said all of that, let's now jump into my conversation with the truly inspiring Nina Sossaman Pogue. But in advance to the conversation, I want to deeply thank you for your time. You were pretty much good with anything I was going to ask. And I just want to start right away. You know, you've had a very unique journey, you know, and you talk about the power of storytelling. And that's been a big part of what you do, and that everybody has a story. And when we share those those stories, you know, we inspire, we influence, and we impact, right? And to begin, I hope that we can start with you sharing a story that summarizes a pivotal life moment for you that may have been a catalyst to your own growth, you know, and and kind of understanding your purpose. And before we get there, I want to share a quote with you from Oprah. Okay. And this is a quote, depending on who my guest is. I I share this quote often. So I'm going to share the quote with you, and then I want you to tell me what resonates with you and share a story behind that, okay? Okay, so the quote is this I believe every one of us is born with a purpose. No matter who you are, what you do, or how far you think you have to go, you have been tapped by a force greater than yourself to step into your God-given calling. So, based on that quote, what story was a real catalyst for you towards better understanding your genuine life purpose?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I have five big this is, what I call big stories in my life that were pivotal moments. But when I think about that, it's actually not one of them. It is uh when my father passed, um, I was in my 50s, my kids were off at college, and I've been taking care of me at Alzheimer's. Uh, and I had this moment where I I really wanted to be able to be there for my children. Uh, if I was like, wait, I could be next. You know, what am I gonna remember? What all the things I need to say to them forever, right now, just in case I'm next. And I I I went through this uh little journey, this you know, moment that we all have in our lives, uh, I think we all have in our lives when we go, what am I really here for? And not an existential crisis, but a okay, wait, I've done a lot with my life already. And now I have these little young adults. Um, what am I supposed to be doing? And I actually heard, I read it in a someone else's book or heard it on a podcast, this concept of go back and open up your calendar for the last two months and and look at it. So I did. I was I was 50, my kids were off of college, and I took my last two months of my corporate calendar, everything's booked on there for you, and I opened it up and I color-coded it, circled things I loved, circled things that I hated, had a different color for things where I felt like I was helping or adding value, uh, I had another color for things I never wanted to do again, you know. So I did all of that. And I think the guidance was to do three months. I'm I did two because I may, I can figure it out sooner, faster, you know. So I I did that. And uh I looked at it and I realized that in the color and the moments that I had put on there where I thought I was adding value, it was all times when I was helping other people through tough times. And I realized, oh, that's what I've been through all of the things that I've gone through, I've become this person outside of what my work description was. I didn't work in HR or anything. I had become this person that people would just book time on my calendar and say, and and I'd show up in a meeting room, you know, and and I had probably 200 people who were reporting to me, but it would be someone who wasn't even in my matrix, and they'd say, sometimes it was a young kid, and he'd be like, Um, I just heard you were really good at getting people through tough times. Or and and he in that case, the one that comes to mind was this young kid who uh was having panic attacks coming across the bridge. His wife was pregnant and he was having panic attacks coming across the bridge. Another time it was a woman who'd lost her husband. Uh, one time I had a neighbor who knocked on my door and uh grown man, he standing there with two beers in his hands, and he said, Um, Nina, I just got fired and I don't know how to tell my wife. I can't go home, I don't know what to do. Can you help me? And I said, Come on in. And we walked through the house and sat on the end of the dock and figured it out. And I realized those moments were what I was supposed to be doing. That everything in my life had brought me to that. And it's and that's when I stepped away and I wrote my first book and I started doing this research because I wanted to get to people more than one at a time, but I wasn't sure. I knew I was saying things that were helpful, um, uh, and I was giving people concepts and ideas, but I didn't know exactly what it was. So I spent the time to package it. And it's my own package of life experience and books I've read and stoicism and cognitive behavior therapy and some, you know, behavior psych behavioral psychology, uh, and my own mashup of all of those. Um, and I put that together and created it for, you know, through some research. And that was that pivotal moment. It was right, my father died, and then I looked at I had this moment, looked at my calendar, and then I went on this journey. And within two months, I left my corporate job and was going down a new path. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That's amazing. And sometimes it takes a lot of experiences in life to kind of stumble across what we need to better understand about ourselves, right? And it sounds like that's what happened to you. And if we were a fly on the wall in an early classroom, let's say grade three or four, what kind of student would we have seen? And what I'm trying to draw on here is you talked about this service to others and that you found that later in life. And sometimes I not oftentimes, I believe there's a deep connection to who we are at our core and essence. And that goes all the way back to childhood. So when you when you reflect back, if I was a fly on the wall in your in your classroom in Florida, I think you grew up Orange Park or something, Florida.
SPEAKER_02:I was in I was Navy Bret, so third grade, yeah, be in Florida for third grade. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, what would we have seen? And what type of student would we have seen, and what strengths did you develop at the time that would go on later in life to serve you so well to ultimately find that calling you just described?
SPEAKER_02:It's interesting that you asked that because I haven't really thought about third grade. I have looked back at other pieces of my life, but I think about third grade. Uh, if I could find my report card, I'm sure it says chatty, you know, but a good a good friend to others. I was kind of always me. I was very talkative, but always a good friend to others. And that was kind of what I would, you know, if I would go back and think about my report cards. I was a decent student, I was nice. But when I look at the big things in my life through my life, where that thread keeps going, uh, when I first made the US team, the very first time I went to the USA Championships as a gymnast, um, it was with Mary Lou Rettin and that whole group. It was the first year that Mary Lou Rettin won it. I won Miss Congeniality. Uh and then I can play it forward. And when I was in television, uh, I was Charles, you know, Charleston's favorite news anchor and I won awards for environmental reporting. And I always was doing things that were, you know, larger than me and for other people. Uh, and then, you know, play it forward in uh a woman of distinction in South Carolina um through business. But that's because I was mentoring so many other people. And I was a Girl Scout troop leader, like all the things. I just I I look back at the moments that really I can string together and I don't call it service. I mean, I've read books on servant leadership and servants. I don't really think of it as service. I just think I really cheer for people. You know, I was never a cheerleader, but I think individual, I really throughout my life, have been a person who has um been very filled with joy upon other people's success. Like I love the indie end of in end of any good like ball game or Olympic event where everybody cheers. Like I love the celebration at the end. Uh, I love the end of a marathon where somebody and I'll cry. I mean, like I'm not even there. I love seeing other people succeed. And that's sort of the through line uh for me. So when I got into this work, um, and and I went through a very difficult time myself where I was like, wait, wait, I I know where the joy comes from is me helping other people succeed. And when I went through a very difficult time myself, I realized, you know, if I was just gonna, if I was gonna stick around, because it was that bad of a time, if I was gonna stick around, that's a big part of what I wanted my life to be.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and that's amazing because you know, what was that when you think of that? What was that connected to within yourself? So what what values? Because you talked about joy, you talked about cheering other people on. So there was a part of you that wanted others to succeed, and you were a highly competitive athlete in a in a very hostile environment. And when I say hostile, I I don't mean violent, what I mean is very competitive, high pressure, high stakes in the public eye, you know. So lots of athletes, and you probably know many, and I do too, are very self-centered and very focused on self, you know, in in their development to become an elite athlete on the world stage. But describe what core values you think that connected to. Like why did that happen and and where was that place coming from within yourself?
SPEAKER_02:I think I have a really and I've done some work here. Um, I I think I have a really uh deep need for kindness. I don't like when people are not kind. Um and and I think my my values around kindness and inclusion, um, I don't like being left out. Uh that those those feelings somewhere in my childhood, I I think probably not having someone not be kind to me and not and leaving me out of things stuck. Because I am just at my core, like my being, strip down all the other stuff. I just really don't understand why people aren't kind and they don't include everybody. Like that's just the easiest thing in the world to do. And those are my two strongest values: kindness, inclusion, and lifetime learning are my values, which took me a long time to figure out what those were. I'm, you know, it was in my 50s, I think, by the time I started figuring those things out and really going, oh, that has been the theme throughout my life. But the kindness piece, um, I don't know. I don't have a memory of not being, you know, people not being kind to me, but I also, and I don't have a memory, a real strong memory of not being included. I do know in high school, like middle school and high school, I was the weird kid. I was the gymnast who was like never the cool kid and never part of like the gang. I never dated, I never did any of the cool things that the other kids did. And I always felt like an outsider. And I know that feeling. And so I never wanted that to be part of other people. So I'll be the one that pulls everybody, you know. I see somebody not having fun, I pull them into whatever, whether it's um we're all playing a game or whether I'm in a bar and somebody's in the corner looking sad. I'm like, I will, I will pull somebody out of the out of the depths and make them be part of the crew and make them happy somehow. But that's there's something like built into me with that.
SPEAKER_04:Did it come from a place when you think back, and you know, I don't want you to share anything that you're uncomfortable sharing, but did it come from a place of like, did you come from a very stable, loving, supportive home? Or was it, you know, a lot of athletes grow up in an environment of uh conditional positive regard, right? That if you succeed, you are accepted, you are praised, you are loved, you are appreciated. Um did you come from a stable background, or was there instability there that caused you to not want that repeated in other people?
SPEAKER_02:I think there's a piece of that, certainly. Uh so I'm the youngest of four in a Navy family. Uh dad was always at sea. I didn't had no relationship with my father until I was adult, an adult. He was always away at sea. Uh back then it was nine months, and you just didn't see them. You know, he was chief of the boat, he was gone. Uh, and it's not like you could, you know, FaceTime and stuff like they have now. He would just leave and he would come back in nine months. Funny story. We're all born in December, all four of us. I mean, out on a boat, come home, a baby. Like it's pretty obvious. We're a military family. Um, so the youngest of four kids. Uh, and my mom was home raising four kids and teaching. She was working full-time. So I think it was um that piece of when I was good, I got attention. Uh, if I could like shine and and um be really good at something, I would get some attention. Uh, but a lot of time was alone. I think I spent a lot, I'm the and my brother closest to me is four years ahead of me. I was like, that's what I was gonna say. Yeah. So I spent a lot of time alone. I love to do puzzles and read. I was kind of this quiet kid. And then when I found gymnastics, then I got attention. And the coaches paid attention to me and the crowds would cheer. And there was this definitely this influx of, oh, wait, they they realize I'm here. Uh and then when I I moved away from home at 13 to move into the Olympic training center from Florida to Washington, DC. So uh at that moment, I also was a pivotal time, 13 years old. And now that I've raised three adults myself, three kids to adult, um, that 13 was really pivotal. And then I went from my parents, who, you know, they're they were married, always have been married until my father died in his 80s. My mother's still living, um, but not a real like close loving relationship. He was always golf on a ship and he was very gruff when he came home. And then my mom was always busy, like just way busy and running in in every direction. She's very hyper. Um, so when I left home at 13, I moved in with my coaches and his family. And it's really fascinating when I look at that. I'm so different from my brothers and sisters because I was raised by coaches. I think that those pivotal years, my coach was very, very influential. I lived with him and his wife and their kids for the first year. And then the next year I moved and I had, you know, a larger group of athletes that we I moved into the training facility. They had just built a new one uh with other athletes, uh, and then always had other athletes around. But uh when I look, and it was it's Greg and Margie Weiss, they were both Olympians that I moved in with. All three of their kids went on to be international superstar athletes and diving and ice skating. Um, you know, so Michael Weiss, who won an Olympic gold medal, like that he was four, I think. He was the young, you know, when I moved up there at 13. So I moved into this community of elite athleticism at 13, where the expectation was just different. And how you carried yourself and what you did was very different. But even in that setting, um, I'm sure little Nina was in the back of her head going, if I'm really good, they'll they'll notice I'm here and pay attention to me. Yeah, I'd get that love. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you know, that's um narrative is so important, and you've obviously done a lot of work, and you know, this is a lot of what I stress in my coaching work and uh the work that I do with the podcast is this idea of the power of narrative. And Dr. Jim Lair, uh, who's a phenomenal performance psychologist, he says that the power broker in your life is the voice that nobody hears. How well you revisit the tone and content of your private voice is what determines the quality of your life. It's the master storyteller, and the stories we tell ourselves create our reality, right? So narrative is huge. So you're essentially summarizing the story that you had created for yourself from a young age, right? How did that narrative shift through some of your turbulent times and take the audience here into that? So you were um you didn't qualify for the 1984 team, correct?
SPEAKER_02:Correct. So I was on the US team, Japan, Hungary, Germany, with Mary Luretton and Bart Conner, that whole group traveling around the world, and on the cover of magazines as an Olympic hopeful, you know, and living in that mindset. Like that was what I'd been training for my whole life. And then I I bombed a qualifying meet. I just had a bad, bad year going into that to the 84, you know, and 83 and international competition in like Budapest and things the year before I'd done well at internationals, but that year I didn't have a good year and I didn't make it.
SPEAKER_04:Can I just can I just time you out there? When you reflect back to that time, was it uh the ability to handle pressure in the moment? Like what was going on for you at the time? And what is your advice to people experiencing, whether it be a different life circumstance, whatever the life circumstance is, but share your major learning from that and what might have been the obstacle that got in the way?
SPEAKER_02:Uh, I don't know if there's a specific obstacle. My obstacle was I grew. You know, I was I, you know, as a gymnast, you really can't grow. Your center of gravity changes, and you know, heaven forbid you get breasts, like any of that. And I hit puberty and started to grow. Um, even when I went off to college, I was still 4'11. Like I'm I'm 5'3 now, like a giant. But uh back then I was so tiny. Um, but I started to grow. And and then I I started losing skills that I've been doing for forever. Uh, and it just your whole body changes. You rotate, your twisting changes, your rotation changes. It's very difficult. So I went through a growth spurt uh is part of the reason that my my skills and my and my consistency dropped at just the worst time. But outside of that, I don't want to act like if that hadn't happened, I'd have been on the Olympic team. When you make the US team, you're in the top, you know, 10 to 20 people in the United States. Yeah. There are people like the Mary Lurettans of the world who just have this God getting talent. I would train something for six months and then uh and show it to her at a competition. She's like, that's so cool, let me try it. She'd get it the second try. I'm like, I must have landed on my head on that, like for weeks. And she would try it after twice, just watching me do it. And and we still follow each other on social and have connected through the years um and text every once in a while. Just there's people are just built differently. She's built for that sport. So I don't I anything away from the athletes who made the Olympic team that year. They were better than me. Like you are in the pecking order. I was close, I was in there. I think for me, the learning came from who was I um without making that team because so much pressure and stuff have been put on me. I think I handled the pressure okay. I don't think that I crumbled under the pressure. I think I just, you know, my body and my changed and my brain got it out of the game because I couldn't keep up. So I I look back, I think the biggest lesson I learned in that is figuring out, you know, how to move forward when things don't go as planned. And that's a lot of what I talk about because it is how I identified. It was everything I'd I had done. And and and to go back and walk the halls of my high school as I felt like it was a failure. I felt like I was like, I was embarrassed, I was ashamed. They'd made such a big deal of it on the announcements, like, watch Nina. Like, and then I I my I let down my friends and my family and my coaches. I just was so full of shame after not making it. And it wasn't until this is really fascinating, so about 15 years later, uh, they inducted me. Um, no, longer than that, because my kids can went back with me, maybe 20 years later. They did a wall of an athletic wall of fame, hall of fame at the at my old high school, which blew up and got really became a huge high school. And uh they brought me back to put a big plaque on the wall, and my kids went with me. And they don't know anything about you know my gymnastics. I've had so many lives since then. Uh and and I ran into some people, I'm like, oh, I remember you. You were like the coolest. And I remember like we were all so proud of you. And in my head, I had a different narrative. I was the one who did hat and made it, that I have been an embarrassment. But I wasn't, I was one of the top athletes in the in the world at the time, like in the nation at least. But in my head, I was playing that. My story was that I was a loser and ashamed and all of that. But to the people around me, they loved like that they would watch me on ABC Wild World of Sports on the weekends in Japan or someplace, you know. We play that narrative. So I think my biggest lesson learned uh was you know, that constantly recreating yourself and that one failure or what what you see as a failure, one moment in your life doesn't define you, and not letting that one moment define you, being a little clearer to ourselves.
SPEAKER_04:That's beautiful. But you did go on to LSU, right? Yeah, so I competed. So it wasn't like gymnastics was over. So take the audience through that journey of was it a journey of rebuilding confidence? Was it finding your center of gravity with a more mature body? Like what because some people would have given up because your narrative was that you had failed, right?
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_04:But then something in yourself didn't allow your yourself to give up. So take the audience through what the next few years was like leading into going to LSU and representing their gymnastics team.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I had two years there. About a year and a half or so from 84 from the summer 84 games until going to LSU. I went to LSU in 85. So it was just like a year or so in between there. Um and I because I was an alternate, like like in the in the bottom, the the the folks who didn't make the team that were on the US team, they sent me to Australia for seven weeks to promote the games. I made a lot of bad choices. So they sent me to Australia and I um had my first beer, uh, I ate Violet Crumbles, I discovered candy bars, like I did all the things. Like if I'm if I'm no longer training for the Olympics, I'm just gonna like go ahead and take it make up for loss, you know, lost time. There were like a lot of lot of boys and candy and things. And then I went to college, and then that continued. So that time, you know, after not making the Olympic team and representing the United States there and then coming back, I had some choices to make. And the college thing was, you know, one, I still love the sport, and it's very much how I identified. I didn't hate the sport just because I didn't make the Olympic teams. I I loved the sport still. And if I wanted to go to college, I had to have a scholarship. Youngest of four kids, not a lot of money. If I was going to go to college, I had to have a scholarship. So the scholarship was really the impetus for going to college, even above my sport. Uh, and you know, having been in the running for the Olympics, I was obviously a top recruit in the nation. And being part of D1 athletics, even back then, was a big opportunity. So I was looked at different places and I ended up going to LSU, which was one of the top programs in the United States at the time, and still is. We just won the national championships last year. Just it's keeping up. Um still a great program. Uh, there's a handful of us that go back often uh that we we stayed close all these years. So I go to LSU um and I and I, you know, sign with that program. I find my people again, my passion again. I'm around other athletes who are committed and training hard, and I love that. I I've always loved the commitment and the training. And I'm one of those people that just will jump in with both feet and want to be, whatever I do, I want to be the best I can be at it. So I I I found my people again in that space. And then my freshman year in a competition, I throw a beam dismount and I blow out my name. And that ends my gymnastics. And so this was a different kind of ending because it it was very much my identity. It was how I how I thought about myself. And back then it's like your your bumper sticker and your sweatshirt and your, you know, that's in your t-shirts. Uh nowadays, I mean, think about it. It's these kids, Instagram and TikTok. I mean, it's how they identify. But losing your sport at 19 then um was really, really difficult for me. And I wasn't sure what to do with myself. Uh, in order to keep my scholarship back then, you had to work for the athletic department. And I ended up working in the laundry room. The coach, the coach was none too happy that I blew out my name, my freshman year, after being such a big recruit. Um, I ended up in the laundry room and not watching like cute little leotards. I was washing all of the athletes stuff. I I sometimes joke, I almost my claim to fame was almost Andy that I washed Shaquille O'Neal's jock strap, probably. So I mean, I mean, really, I was a bad spot. But I so I'm working in this laundry room and I'm on crutches and I'd switch the stuff out, and then I'd sit outside in the sunshine, and all the other athletes, it was in the it was in the basement area of the PMAC, the Pete Meravich Assembly Center, the big assembly center where they play basketball and do all the sports at LSU. And I would crutch out there and sit in the sunshine, and you know, all the other athletes would be walking to practice or class and people walking by, and nobody talks to the sad girl on the crutches. Like I'm I'm I'm an image of what could go wrong. Um and it was through that experience, someone finally stopped. Um, an athletic athletic advisor, an academic advisor. They didn't have counselors like they have now, but an academic advisor, this young guy, I say young, he's probably 40-something, but in my head, that's young now. Uh, he stopped and would stop and talk with me. And I think the probably the first few times he went by, he probably said something like, How you doing, Nina? And I probably said something snarky, like, great, best day ever, can't you tell? You know, because uh and after a while, he actually sat down and had some conversations with me. And for the first time, he is the first person I ever remember in my life. Um, he would ask me, Well, what do you want to do after gymnastics? And I had never thought about it. It had been my life for so many years. It's what I knew since I was four. And so uh no one had ever really put that in front of me or asked, and I hadn't really thought about it. So I muddled my way through college. I always say I graduated in boos and boys, um, but I muddled my way through college and ended up through his guidance in journalism. And uh when I stepped into that newsroom, it was that feeling again. Everything was moving fast and competitive and hard and and like you had to get it right, and it was live. And and I was like, oh, I'm a junkie, like this is my next uh thing I'm gonna jump into and do. And I did, and I just fell in love with it and for many, many years, spent a lot of time as a journalist and then a news anchor.
SPEAKER_04:And won an Emmy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, and yeah, for best newscaster in the Southeast at one point. Thanks, thanks. That was later in my career, in my in my 30s, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And that's that constant transformation of oneself, you know. And I think that there are you familiar with Dr. Michael Gervais?
SPEAKER_02:I have heard, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so I know he's he's uh the performance psychologist I know for the US Olympic team for surfing and maybe beach volleyball, but he's he's done a lot of work with elite athletes. And uh, you know, I've trained under him uh with his programs and stuff, and he was the performance psychologist for the Seattle Seahawks with Pete Carroll. Um and he talks, he was on my podcast a few years ago, and what he talks about is this idea that there's a very thin line, he calls it a thin membrane between hope and despair, right? And how thin that is, and how everything can be gone or taken from a person in the snap of our fingers, right? And that's a perfect example where you could have turned to deep despair, right? But the best of the best, the the tip of the arrow, as he says, are the ones that kind of double down on optimism because they're they refuse to accept that there's not an optimistic future for them. That doesn't mean positive, fluffy thinking and just trying to visualize a perfect life and it's gonna happen, not at all. We've got to build the internal skills necessary to pursue life with that sense of optimism, even in the face of despair. Right? Does that resonate with you? And can you just share what resonates with you in regards to that pivotal moment in your life, the injury?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that absolutely resonates with me at that pivotal moment and then other pivotal moments throughout my life. Uh is that uh hanging on to the what this is the worst day yet? Like this is the best day yet. I love with throwing the word yet and like what could be next. Uh, a lot of my talk, talking, speaking, and writing in my books now is all around that concept of why do some people move forward and why do some people get stuck? I mean, that is the the research that I do. And at that moment, I think that I I look at this person who's who put the planted the seed in my head, what could be next? Um, and even, you know, and and and that became this optimistic thought of all the amazing things I could do in the future. Like, wait, this is a lot of you know, life left to to live. What what what could I look what could that look like? I hadn't really ever thought about it. I was so busy trying to be the best at the thing I was doing. Um, I hadn't thought forward. And then when as a journalist, at one point uh in my 30s, so first um I went through a divorce. Like no one plans for that. Like that's nobody jumps in and thinks that's gonna be their life. Like that was another how did I get here moment, another big this in my life. Uh, and then I and in that same few months, uh, I won Charleston's favorite news anchor for the seventh year in a row. And I got called into the office for the general manager as I was walking down to do a news brief, and the day after it comes out in the paper, and he says, uh, we are exercising the option in your contract to release you without cause. And I get let go in budget cuts. Same sort of thing. Like in these moments, in these moments where we have these down moments, I could have just gotten stuck at that and been the lady who used to do the news. But I've always had something deep inside of me that goes, you know, obviously it hurts. It's personal. You you got to sit in the funk for a little bit. I always say it's okay to not be okay. It's just not okay to stay that way. So I sat in the funk for a minute. Um, I remember sitting with my box of stuff in my Jeep outside the news station, going, What am I supposed to do now? I'm like in full makeup and hair. I don't know where to go where to go. Um, and you know anybody who sees me out is gonna be like, Why aren't you doing the news? And I was not ready for that conversation. But in those moments, when we talk about why some people can go forward and find hope and other people can't, um, there is a piece of me uh and a piece of a lot of people who just look at life as a little larger and then find a path forward. And my research, the framework that I offer, I call it this framework because it's whatever this you're going through. You're this, uh, because my this is different than yours, like this thing I can't handle. And it's when that word is said, like, I can't do this. This is too much. How do I get past this? Like, we know we've had these conversations. Like, how did this become my life? So you're this is yours. But I take the T H I S and through my research, the commonalities and what I've found in the people that can move forward and the people who get stuck are they do these four things. Um, and again, it's my own mashup of stoicism, behavioral science, and cognitive behavior therapy and and a few other things. Uh, but they they one, they they have the ability to look at the bigger picture, to look at their life on a timeline and go, I am right here. And all this blank space ahead. It's mine. I'm gonna do with it whatever I want. I have all this blank space ahead, or look at their life like a book and go, well, this is a sh crappy chapter. Look at me editing. This is a crappy chapter. Um, I have all these blank pages ahead. Like, what am I gonna put in them? So there's people who have the ability to see that, and then that's the T, the timeline thinking. And the H I call I I use for humans, and people who have success, have big success, don't just survive something, but they thrive on the other side of it. I have found they don't go it alone. They pull in other humans. They, you know, athletes have coaches, people have mentors. Um, people who have big success, one, um, have the strength to ask for help, which is hard, you know, have the strength to ask for help, and they have the ability to let other people in uh in a moment where it feels like you're all in it by yourself. So that's the human space. And then the I in this is isolate, like also people who have success in this space, they're not spending all their time in the before this happened, woulda, shoulda, coulda, how did I get here kind of stuff. Because any good therapist will tell you that's where depression lives in the before. Yeah. And then, and they're not spending too much time in the after either, like the what-ifs and the doomsday scenarios, because any good therapist will tell you in the after, that's where anxiety lives. So the before is depression and the after is anxiety. It's this uh concept of just being in this moment, um, which is ancient Chinese philosophy and a lot of stoicism. Like I have the presence right now, the present. So what can I do in this moment where I am in control? That's the only place you really have any control. And so that's the I is this isolate, not before after. What am I actually dealing with? And then the S is what you've been talking about. This is a story. What is the story you're telling? What is the the words in your head come out of your mouth, and that becomes your story? So, what language are you using? Are you, you know, being self-sabotaging with all this overgeneralization that's always happens to me, or catastrophizing everything's ruined, it's never gonna work out, or jumping to conclusions, you know. Um, yeah, and if you know they didn't text me back, so they must think I'm an idiot. You know, all the stuff we do every day, uh, or exaggerating, you know, like I have eight million things to do, I have 50 loads of laundry. Like, who's really done 50 loads of laundry? Like six at a weekend is really a crappy weekend, but 50 loads. But we say things, we create our own too much reality. Um, so that's the story part. So I I this is a really long answer to your question, but I have found the people who don't get stuck in those moments and don't just maybe survive them, but never really become all they can be, are the ones who just survive them. They don't do these four things. They don't put it in a perspective, put it in the timeline, and then find humans, isolate it, and then craft that story in their head. Uh, they look at what I call your big, messy, marvelous life in a different way. It's not all pretty. It doesn't have to be. It is yours. You're you're in charge of it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's beautiful. And that is a trainable skill, you know. And you're not born with the ability to do that. You're not born with the ability to place your life on a timeline from a bird's eye view. Some people are good at it, some people aren't. You're not born with the ability, the ability to lean on others or not, or to isolate or create this positive story. It's a buildable skill. And we train ourselves to do that by staying present, reflecting on our thoughts, uh uh, thoughts, words, and actions with consistency, you know, uh, making sure that those things are aligned to what we believe in, our purpose, our core values. And then there's also that idea of the openness to experience, you know, and being open that when the universe comes knocking on your door to present you a new opportunity. So for you, it was that academic counselor who just happened to be passing by, who saw something in you and felt compelled to sit by your side and to talk to you. And when you think back to those special moments, maybe they're those moments that are created by God. I'm not religious, but maybe they're built on uh self-belief or just being open to experience whatever it is, karma. It's so important to build the skills necessary to do as you described, so that this acronym, you know. Um, and you have the capital this, so capital T, capital H, capital I, capital S, all capitalized. Then the second this is just a capital T. And then the third this is all um small letters, this.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So you distinguish between the three. So take the audience through what that looks like.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the the big this is all caps this is or the big things that take our life in a whole new direction, or the you know, getting fired, getting divorced, losing a loved one, you know, death of a parent, like like your life is going in one direction, and it's not gonna be the same on the other that on the other side of this. It's gonna be very different. You're gonna be very different on the other side of it. And then there's the capital T, H I S, lower K H I S. Those are the things that sidetrack us for maybe a few weeks or a month, a few months of our lives. And uh, the example I always give is so you're you're in a car accident, and so you maybe you're in the hospital and then you're in a boot and you got to get your car fixed. Like life's gonna be different for a while and it's gonna be harder, but you're gonna get on the other side of it. Like this was not part of the plan, but you're gonna be okay. The one, the one uh uh the other example I like to give because it happened to me a few years ago, is my mom had a fall and she's 90 and she had a fall, and I had a lot of speak engagements and things lined up. And so I had to step away and go, I I had to be there for her in the ICU until she could, you know, get healthy enough to get a step-down unit and get healthy enough to find, and I had to find her a new place to live and be there and get her going again. But afterwards, I could step back into my life. So this is a capital T H I S they're not part of your plan and they're gonna suck for a while, but you can get back on track. And then there's the littlesses. And uh, if you rearrange the letters in this, that's all that that's all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's exactly that's just all the other. I just got that.
SPEAKER_04:I was like, okay.
SPEAKER_02:I was giving you a minute, I didn't think you were gonna say it. I was just gonna let you like infer it. I was being very careful, but yeah, it's all the little shit. But it's all the littlisses, it's all the other you gotta deal with. Uh, and uh when I do a college talk, it always is fun because they get it pretty quickly and go, oh, and I can kind of play that out. But yeah, it's the you cut off in traffic, you're you know, you're going along, and and you know, for me, I'm all dressed and ready to go, and then I spill coffee on myself, or uh I'm in the middle of a big something's going on, or your kids' school calls, or your mom, like the stuff that we just have to deal with. It's not part of our plan for the day. Like you get up, like this is the day I'm gonna get all my stuff done, and then all these things come at you, and you're like, I just wanted to have a good day, and all these things happen. That's the littlenesses. Yeah. Yeah. And we all have those. Um, especially if I talk to like people who manage a lot of people, I'll say, You had a whole day plan that you were gonna do. And then before you even got to your list, everybody else's this is got in the way. Somebody called in six, somebody's, you know, dog threw up in the middle of the meeting. Like it's all just stuff. Yeah. Somebody zoomed didn't work, whatever it is. That little this is. So I I break it up in that way so people can see as we go through life, like no one gets no one gets a pass. Everybody has a few of those big this is. It's gonna happen. Uh, and some of those medium size, and a lot to those little ones. And as you go through life, well, none of us are flatline people. There's the highs, the good stuff that happens, and then there's the lows, the bad stuff that happens. And life just keeps going up and down, but you don't want to be flatline. If you think of it like an echocardiogram on that timeline, that would be bad. You don't want to be the flatline people. So you just got to get better at at dealing with the the this is and getting back up over that line. You just have to have some structure and some acceptance. That is how life works. Uh, and so that's the framework that I put out there for folks.
SPEAKER_04:Well, what's interesting, what comes up for me, I was laughing when you were saying the the little uh this, because I had a moment the other day where I was all pumped up, ready to go to work, and we live super close to work. Um, literally, like it takes me 45 seconds to get there.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm just that is super close. Yeah, is it in your house?
SPEAKER_04:No, it's right across the street. I do most of my work. It's it's uh I work part-time at the Antwerp International School in Belgium, and uh, we've got a beautiful school, it's right across the street, and um, you know, then I have a home office to do my consulting and coaching, uh, which is most of the time, but I was pumped up, ready to go into work, and and I had my clothes on, and I walk out the door, and it's raining in Belgium a lot in the winter, and I'm walking across the street and I go, Shit, I'm in my slippers, and I feel my feet getting wet, and I have big fluffy slippers, and I'm like halfway 45 seconds to work, I'm 20 seconds into the journey, yeah, and uh my feet are soaking wet, and I go, shit. And then I I walk back and I have to change my socks and then put on my shoes, and then I'm a bit flustered because I've got I'm gonna be late for a meeting, but that's what you're describing.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, and that starts your whole day, and how you handle that, how you handle that sets that you know that you could sit in that all day long and just be irritated with it, or you can go, that was not part of the plan. I'm over it, I'm moving on. So it's how we handle the this is that are directly related to our health and our happiness and our society.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, for sure. And yeah, but you must come across a lot of audiences or or um I should say a lot of different people who have been through a lot of very difficult times and they gravitate towards cynicism. And the little this is can be huge to them. Whereas somebody else can dismiss them, like you and I can dismiss it, me walking, you know, it through a puddle on my slippers. You know, I can dismiss it, I can laugh it off, you know. But to somebody else, that might be, oh, figures it would happen to me after the week I've had, whereas somebody else can just brush it off. Whereas that middle this with just a capital T can be um a catastrophe to somebody. And then the big this literally shuts them down for years, you know. Um so do you see that what I'm saying? Do you see a pattern there? And you've probably had to help people, um, you know, the people that look at those little this is as the end of the world, you've probably had to deal with all sorts of different people in that way, right? So can you just speak to that a bit?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I think that the best way to say this is, you know, a bad day doesn't make a bad week, a bad week doesn't make a bad year, and even a bad few years doesn't make a bad life. Like we all have stuff we deal with. And so being able to go, hey, it's okay to not be okay, it's just not okay to stay that way, and and get yourself to a level of understanding that every time you get better at handling things, you're becoming more resilient. So I spend a lot of time explaining to people the difference between persistence, grit, and resilience. They think they're the same. Persistence and resilience are very different. So persistence is getting up and going hard every day and doubling down and sticking with it. And grit is like whenever it's really hard not giving up. Those are very different than resilience. Resilience, through the definition, is your ability to learn, grow stronger, and adapt in a positive way to whatever happens in your life. So that's why resilience became my research because I didn't want people just to be, I don't want you just to get up and keep going. I want you to get better and get better and get better and get stronger and stronger and stronger. So these people's ability to adapt in a positive way. I I spent a lot of time going, what does that mean? Adapt in a positive way. Um, your ability to do this learning and grow stronger and adapt and go back up over that line again, is really, really the difference, makes or break you as a person. And the more you do it, the better it. We don't come out being resilient. I always say, when I when I'm working with a group of executive leaders or um even with a team, I'll go like who I'll always say, okay, let's do our little, I call it your reverse resume. Your resume is all the stuff above the line, and your reverse resume is all the tough stuff you've been through. Were you bullied as a kid? Did you um, you know, did you parent a child with a disability? Did you get fired? You've been divorced, like all the like all the stuff that we go through, all that's down below the line. I want to see your reverse resume. What are you made of? Because that makes you who you are. And so when I work with an executive group, I'm like, when stuff goes wrong, you need those people. You need the people who've been through some things because their muscles are stronger. They've been, you know, building that muscle to realize that life's not over just because this happens. Like this is just part of life. And I will tell you and everybody who's listening, you, listener, have survived everything life has thrown at you. You have a really good track record. So, you know, lean into your track record and go, okay, this is just the next thing that's coming along, you know. And you're gonna get to the other side of this too. Five years from now, it's gonna be a story you tell. Let's start figuring out, you know, the words and the stuff. Like, what is that story gonna look like? How what's the best case scenario? Let's try for that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. And are you familiar with Dr. Gabor Mate?
SPEAKER_02:No, I'm not.
SPEAKER_04:So he's a trauma-informed um expert, he's a physician-turned trauma expert. Uh, G-A-B-O-R-M-A-T-E, Dr. Gabor Mate. He's written a number of bestsellers. He's amazing, he's an amazing human. And what he talks about is this idea um of the attempt to escape pain only creates more of it. Right? Yes, yes, I know all about that. Yeah, and that's what he describes. So it's that idea that we we build coping mechanisms to escape the pain of life, the things we've been through. And the people who find most meaning and purpose, not happiness, but meaning and purpose with a bit of happy, shiny edges to it, you know, because we're not all happy all of the time. Um, but the people who find most meaning and purpose in life are the ones who have learned to overcome the tendency, uh, the habit to escape pain through alcohol or whatever it is, right? Whatever.
SPEAKER_02:There's lots of escapes, scrolling on your phone, whatever. Like there's lots of escapes, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So the these addictions are created as a result of not wanting to experience the pain and learning to sit with it and learning to understand how it can transform us. And I told you about my accident in Cambodia before recording. And I had a tough time after that kind of getting through that, but I was open to the signs from the universe, you know, like what is this teaching me about myself? You know, as hard as it is, as hard as almost dying and thinking you're gonna lose your family. And you know, I went through post-traumatic stress disorder for uh a few years after. And I I learned that I had to sit with it in instead of escaping it. But yeah, just share. I know we're we're segueing to a close, but just share what comes up for you based on your life story and you know, you've been through pain, physical, mental pain. But just share how that quote resonates with you and anything you want to share would be great.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the uh I believe in that sitting in the pain. That goes back to my it's okay to not be okay. Like you can't just pretend you're okay all the time. Uh and sometimes it's you gotta kind of sit in it. Uh, I think of a couple things. One, like my my son, my oldest, um, who's now married, 27 and finishing med school, so proud of him. But but that when he was in high school, he was a pitcher, like his dad. His dad was a Pro Bowl player, and he played baseball and he was a pitcher, and um, he blew out his elbow and had Tommy John surgery. Uh, but I can remember when he blew out his elbow, like all the D1 coaches stopped calling. He was just so like, it was just the worst. And he remembered sitting on the screen porch and he was just like curled up on the little sofa we had out there, and he was just so sad. And uh, and he's just big, you know, big kid, but he was just so sad. And he's like, This sucks, my whole life's over, and wasted my whole life in a dugout with a bunch of sweaty boys, and now like, what am I gonna do? I can just remember the whole conversation. And I remember thinking, I I, you know, you want to hug him and make it all better, but I was like, I just had to sit in the suck with him. Like, like it, yes, this is really, really hard. And it's really sad. And I just let him be sad and mad and pissed at the world. And you know, it you can't just cheer somebody up too quickly. I think that's what the part of what that is, is you that quote to me means um you have to go through the pain. It was really sad and really hard. And I knew what it felt like to lose a sport, so I got it. I wasn't gonna, and I wasn't ready to tell him it's all gonna be okay. Um, I talk about this in my book, my first book. Like I use him as an example. Like I knew, so I wanted to say, hey, baby, it's all gonna be okay. He could never have imagined in that moment, as a you know, sweaty teenager sitting on the porch with an arm all jacked up, that you know, all these years later, he would be graduating from med school and married to a beautiful girl and about to be a neurologist, like that he would find a love for science and mute and find a love for medicine and and he surfs and like he's like the most amazing human. But at that moment, like everything was bad. And I had to just let it be bad. That's part of resilience, too, is is you know, building that muscle of this isn't gonna kill you. Let's let's sit in it and see how bad it can feel. And then once you get on the other side of it, you realize it's not, it's not gonna kill you. But you, unless you let yourself feel that pain and that sadness, you can't get there. In my own life, um, and this had happened before this moment with him in my 30s. I was involved in an accident. And I don't want to trauma dump on your listeners, so I won't go through the whole thing. You can read my book. I do share about it, I'm an open book about it. But I went through uh being involved in an accident where I went from reporting the headlines to being in the headlines, and it was big and it was public, and I was so um caught up in the just I I didn't want my life to be what it was. I wanted to go back to what it was before, and I couldn't see any way path forward where I would be happy again. It was just bad. And uh, I thought of taking my own life during that time. Uh really in a dark place, and I had some real serious suicidal ideation, and I just thought the world would be better without me in it. And so part of my research and my writing and my my impetus to go down this road uh is is I want people to see, no matter how bad it is, there's always a path forward. Um, but in those moments, so I I have an understanding of how bad it can feel. Like I really truly thought that I'd never be happy again. There was never a way out of this. I had three young kids at home too, and I had just gotten remarried and like I and I was still me, but I wanted out. Uh, and I can look at that now and go, that pain, uh, going through those depths and into that pain where I was just at one point numb. I couldn't feel anything anymore. Um, I I think that it's really, really key to to share that as we wrap up here, because I I think there's always a path forward. And I look at it now and I think, oh my gosh, like it everything, the news cycle moved, the news trucks moved off my lawn, like the news cycle moved on to something else so quickly. The world went on, and I was the only one in that really dark place. The rest of the world kept m going. And sometimes that's part of that big, big, messy, marvelous life. We get caught in our own heads. You live most of your life in your own head. Make sure it's a nice place to be. So it's a lot of work. And so and I think about those tough moments and how I got out of them and then my son in that moment. Yeah, life does that, but it's your life to move forward and figure out a path forward. Uh and and we all have these, you know, whatever your this is, some of yours are worse than mine. Some of you may think, well, I've never had anything that bad happen to me. Don't discount it. You've gone through stuff. You're this is your this. Uh we all have defined our path forward. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I really commend you for sharing that. Um it's so important because people look at others who are highly successful and think they have perfect lives. My wife, who trained under Gabor Mate, and his approach is called compassionate inquiry. She trained under him and she became a certified therapist under that approach. But now she's studying and facilit learning how to facilitate suicide attention. So she will become a suicide attention facilitator down the road. More training needed, but she's learned so much and she's a school counselor now. And and she often talks about this idea. If it was a few years ago and somebody admitted suicidal ideation or suicidal thoughts, she would have been overwhelmed and wanted to send them off to somebody else. But she has learned to sit with them and to listen to them and to talk to them about what is the pain saying, what does it mean to you? What does it feel like? And to have those conversations so they're heard, so they know that somebody cares about them. And what you described in your dark moment was ultimately finding a way out. But it's so important to experience moments such as that, to know you have the resilience to get through it, and then empower others through your story, and that's what you've done.
SPEAKER_02:And and that it's when I when I think about going back to your very beginning and my purpose here, and I'm like, I I'm not I I'm not real religious either, uh, but I believe there's big forces going on in the world and opportunities are created for us to find all of those things. I I believe I've got a purpose on this planet, but when I go back to that purpose, um maybe I was supposed to be right there and right there because I was the most resilient person who could get through it and not make that choice, because I think most people would have. Um, and maybe I was, you know, supposed to be there and and it was put me on this path to, you know, tell my story in in a in a meaningful way because I'm a communicator. Uh I don't know. I don't know all the answers, but I do know. I do know we all get one story and it's up to us to create that whatever it is and uh whatever it becomes. And there is always a path forward. But I I having been in that place where I just didn't think there would be, like I I truly didn't think so. Um and and the mindset of that, I and I'm talking with a lot of other people. My podcast, uh, that's what I do. I talk to people who've been in that space. It's called This Seriously Sucks, the right podcast when life goes seriously wrong. Um and I haven't, you know, been out there doing it for a while. I I put it in hiatus because I was working on other projects, but this thinking, and I commend your wife for jumping into this space because it is so needed right now, more than ever, especially in the high school space. The number one cause of death for young girls 14 to 25 is suicide. Like how frightening is that? It's just outrageous. Anyway, um I truly believe that sharing your story uh and and what you can offer on how you got out of it is really, really important uh because we all have tough times and and there is always a way forward.
SPEAKER_04:Always absolutely, absolutely. So in closing, uh, I really want people to know about your book. So can you just give us just a snapshot into your 2019 book and um This is not the end of 2019, and then your book, I think, in 2023. Yeah, yeah, which is But I want both. So why don't we leave the listeners with a little snapshot into those two books and then where they can find you on social media and find your books?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so thank you for asking. Um my books, uh I have two books out, and I have a third one in my brain that I'm trying to make happen. But my first book I'm really proud of, uh, This Is Not the End, Strategies to Get You Through the Worst Chapters of Your Life. And that is my five big this is, my five big this is. Uh this is not the end, and it looks like a typewriter says the end on front. So it's not the end of your story. And and it's not a book about me. It is a book I wrote for you, the reader. And it's the book I was looking for back when I needed help. Uh, and I saw lots of other people's stories and big PTSD workbooks and all kinds of, you know, big thick journals and stuff on mental health. I'm like, I just need somebody to tell me what to do so I don't do something drastic. It is that book, and it is just strategies to like it, it'll take you through them. If you don't read any of it, read chapter six and then jump to chapter nine, and you will be better. It is truly the book I was looking for. And I'm very and it's short. It's hard to write a short book. Uh and it's a very short book. Uh my second book is But I Want Both, and uh it's not my favorite. I'm actually in the middle of a rewrite right now. Uh I don't like the cover and it's too wordy, uh, you know, but I had a two-book deal, so I I made it happen. It really is got fantastic information on it. In it, it's about when your life takes off, uh, your career, your career takes off at the same time you start having children. So it's for women. It's a women's, it's it's I but I want both a woman's guide to creating a life she loves, a working woman's guide to creating a life she loves. And so the idea is at at in the professional setting, because I was I we didn't really talk about it, but I spent 12 years in tech at a SAS company, a friend startup again, another opportunity that came into my world, and I jumped into that world. Um and in in the corporate world, my career took off at the same time I had these young kids, but I wanted both. And how do you do that? And it's a a really good um worksheets and and and ways of thinking and and things that probably as a young girl you weren't told. These are things you need to think about as you went down this road. And as in a corporate executive, the things that I learned of what has what can give be give and take. So that's my second book. Uh, and they're anywhere where you buy books, and there's uh audio books of those as well. I don't read it, someone else reads it. Um, but I I highly recommend if you're going through a tough time, grab that first one. Um, and then the proceeds from that I give to suicide prevention.
SPEAKER_03:So beautiful.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I I I truly believe in that and try to just get into the world as much as you much as I can. And then I have I and I will share kind of cool, Landy. I just launched this, so good timing with this call with you, uh, this this podcast with you. Uh, I just launched my now what workshop. So uh I'm a big uh fan and believer of hey, if you're having a problem, get a clinically trained therapist to help you. And that's not me, but people kept saying, Well, I just kind of want to get past this moment and would you put together something? And so it's a self-guided online workshop to get you from into the super suck to find a way forward, that's all. And I I recommend people uh find a clinically trained therapist in there and give them some ideas on that too. I always say therapies like dating, like if you go to one and don't like them, don't go back for a second date. You know, but uh but this is my now what workshop just launched and it's online and you can find it. Um and it's a real easy, self-guided, private, do it on your own time. Uh it'll get you, it'll get you out of a tough spot. Okay, and your website Nina SawsomanPogue.com, which is a big old mouthful, but that's what it is. Okay. Uh so yeah, Nina SawsomanPogue.com.
SPEAKER_04:And you're on LinkedIn?
SPEAKER_02:I am, I'm on LinkedIn. Um, if you have uh and I do a lot of corporate stuff there, that's where a lot of my speaking is. So if you're looking for a speaker for an event or a conference, uh that's where I spend most of my time on these days. And then on Instagram, it's Nina Speaks. And uh I I do daily motivation and inspiration on Instagram. I think I'm funny, so I put funny stuff out there. I'm not everybody's cup of tea, that's okay too. But uh I I think of um motivation, inspiration kind of like a shower. I mean, you need it over and over, you can't just do it once. So I put some daily fun stuff on there as well. Uh and on TikTok, I hired a new young team and they have me trying to do some TikTok stuff. So who knows if that will work or not? But check it out. You can see me fail. There we go.
SPEAKER_04:Well, openness to experience again, right? With TikTok. Nina, it's been great. We could talk for hours. There's so much more that I could ask you and and unpack. I would love just to spend more time with your gymnast career, really doubling down on a conversation about resilient mindset and athletics and all of those things that help people better handle high pressure situations. So much we could talk about. You offer so much insight and life lessons learned that uh I hope my listeners really got a lot from the conversation. I'm sure they they have, but I want to thank you for your time and energy and for coming on the podcast, Nina.
SPEAKER_02:Happy to be here. Happy to be here. And and for all your athletes listening, uh, I will tell you, uh, I always would hire an athlete before I would hire anybody else because they do have that. They're coachable and they can as if you're a gymnast, you literally can fall down your face and get back up. So uh so much encouragement out there to that audience. And thank you so much, Andy, for having me here. It's really been a fun conversation.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, thank you very much, Nina. So everybody, thank you very much for listening to this episode. And I hope you come back to listen to future episodes.
SPEAKER_00:That it can always be spring. And when I pushed you in a straw, you were looking up, singing life like a church in. Of that much I know I'm sure. Keep on laughing at the rain, I guess. Isn't that the place to start? Someday you will be stronger than you are now. But you'll not know everything When the water spilling over the bow You'll still have me in the way You gotta get up to get down, kid You gotta get down to get up again You gotta get up to get down, kid You gotta get down to get up again Treat your mother like she's made the gold After all she brought you here If you're lost, go see the ocean It will always help you stay So that you will be stronger than you want up But you will not know everything With the water spilling over the power You're still happy in the way You gotta get up to get up again You gotta get down to get up again You gotta get up to get up again You gotta get down to get up again Some day I will be weaker than I am now And I still won't know everything When I'm passing up and over the clouds I hope that you all have learned from me Someday you will be stronger than you are now But you will not know everything When the water's spilling over the power You'll still have been away You gotta get up to get out of the kid You gotta get the company