Run Your Life Show With Andy Vasily
Run Your Life Show With Andy Vasily
#284- The Legacy of a Coach: Harry Lumley on Life, Leadership, and Belonging
In this meaningful episode, Andy Vasily sits down with his longtime friend and mentor, Coach Harry Lumley, for an inspiring and deeply personal conversation about life, leadership, and the true meaning of coaching. With over 60 years of experience, Harry shares his journey from humble beginnings to becoming a legendary coach who has impacted generations of athletes and students.
Together, Andy and Harry explore the importance of building authentic relationships, the transformative power of positive feedback, and the enduring legacy of caring for others.
Listeners will hear stories of resilience, hope, and the ripple effect of investing in people. Harry’s wisdom goes far beyond the X’s and O’s of sport—he offers practical advice for coaches, teachers, parents, and anyone striving to make a difference. This episode is a testament to the power of empathy, the importance of belonging, and the belief that one caring adult can change a life forever.
Key Topics Discussed:
- The foundation of Harry’s coaching philosophy: relationships and trust
- Overcoming adversity and finding purpose through service
- The impact of positive feedback and deep listening
- Creating a sense of belonging and mattering for every athlete
- Lessons on legacy, hope, and living with intention
Notable Quotes:
- “When kids know you care about them, you can accomplish so much.”
- “The real victories are found in the lives changed.”
- “All it takes is one adult to invest a little bit of time in a young person for that person to know that they matter.”
Connect with Harry Lumley:
Please share this episode with anyone who you feel will benefit from listening. Thank you!
As far as you know what my religion is or what my beliefs are, my main belief has always been in me. I believe in the power I have to do things. And I don't mean by making money or anything, but how I can help somebody else. And I've all I've always realized to make money, the easiest way to make money, help somebody else make money. If you help somebody else make money, it'll come back to you. Everything comes back. Whatever you put out in the universe is going to come back somehow. Good or bad. And I and I always firmly believe that.
SPEAKER_03:You're listening to the Funny Life podcast with host Andy Basley.
SPEAKER_00:We all have special mentors in our lives, people who care deeply about us and our success. And they all have this remarkable ability to see potential in us that we often can't see in ourselves, especially during those moments when we're lost, on the wrong path, or standing at the crossroads of possibility and fear. As we've all experienced, they don't just teach us skills or share knowledge. They hold up a mirror that reflects back our own capabilities, gently pushing us beyond the boundaries we've unconsciously drawn around ourselves. The most profound mentors don't create our success. They help us discover the strength and wisdom that was always there. Today's conversation is with someone who did exactly that for me, Coach Harry Lumley from Windsor, Ontario, Canada. And I'm excited to share not just his insights, but the transformative power of having someone in your corner who refuses to let you settle for less than you're capable of becoming. To spend some time learning from some special humans doing amazing work. Great people who are impacting the world in their own unique ways. And I really want my listeners to learn from them and use this learning to better understand how my guests navigate their own lives from the inside out in order to achieve the success they have. I'd like to now set some context for the conversation you're about to hear with Harry Lumley. He's been an influential coach in my hometown of Windsor, Ontario for nearly 60 years. He's coached a number of sports, but in particular, his main sports were football and baseball. You'll hear the school Herman mentioned quite a bit in this podcast, and what Harry's referring to is WF Herman Academy, which is located on the city's east side. Harry's been coaching the football team at the school since 1967, and during this time he's led his team to 27 city championships, including a remarkable stretch of winning nine in a row. Harry's coaching philosophy is rooted in the belief that authentic relationships are the foundation of true success, both on and off the field. And for Harry, coaching has always been about being people-centered, prioritizing the process of growth, trust, and connection over just outcomes and wins. He believes that when athletes know their coach genuinely cares about them as individuals, not just as players, they're empowered to reach their fullest potential. Harry's approach is to listen deeply, provide honest and positive feedback, and ensure that every athlete feels seen, heard, and valued. By fostering a sense of belonging and mattering, Harry's legacy extends far beyond championships. He's inspired generations of student athletes to believe in themselves, support one another, and carry forward the lessons of empathy, resilience, and genuine human connection. Having said all of that, it's important to mention that Harry's devotion and commitment to a lifelong pursuit of coaching came through tremendous hardship. And in our conversation, he opens up about early days in his life and the challenges that he faced.
SPEAKER_02:And when we were kids, the home life was terrible. And we had to uh basically fend for ourselves. I mean, it was it was really bad. We couldn't even eat at home. We had to eat at neighbors' places. And if it wasn't for neighbors and Godfrey Janice and my brother, I don't think I'd have been alive when I was 20. I was in trouble all the time. Uh, even at that young age, I was drinking, I was smoking, I was doing a lot of really dumb things. But I always wanted to help kids because I knew what it was like to not have anything.
SPEAKER_00:And to set even more context, he also discusses the importance that mentors played in his life and how this helped him to pursue coaching as a way of giving back to his community in Windsor, Ontario.
SPEAKER_02:There was no home life, it was everything with sports, because that's where all the good people that I knew were. So it was all coaches and my brother that just they just took care of me. And I thought, I owe this back. I gotta, you know, move this forward for sure. And that's how I really got going with coaching. And the more I did it, the more I started to see the effect it could have.
SPEAKER_00:Throughout his years as an educator, Harry was a fierce advocate for the disadvantaged students, the ones considered to be too tough to handle. Because some students are very challenging to deal with, the easy thing to do for many teachers and coaches is to give up on them. But for Harry, he fiercely advocated for them. And this is something that many students he coached have never forgotten to this day.
SPEAKER_02:I used to get in arguments when I was a guidance counselor at Herman. I used to go to teachers who would kick kids out or give certain kids trouble, and I would go to them and I say, listen, I'm not allowed to do this because of confidentiality. I'm gonna do it anyway. You're given such and such a bad time. You couldn't last one minute in this kid's shoes. Have you ever thought about talking to the kid and find out about what his home life's like or what he's going through?
SPEAKER_00:In closing, you'll hear that Harry is not in good health. And as his physical health continues to decline, he's now considering the MAID program, which stands for Medical Assistance in Dying. He has begun the process of speaking with doctors and psychologists about pursuing this option in his life, and you'll hear the main reasons why in our conversation today.
SPEAKER_02:You know what MAID is, the assisted suicide. In Canada, it's called MAID. And my brother went through it, and a couple of people I know, I just went three weeks ago to IODE, met two doctors, because I want to be, I want that to happen to me.
SPEAKER_00:Harry was my mentor when I played for the AKO Frappman football team over 30 years ago. So having him on the podcast was deeply meaningful. And through five decades of coaching, Harry has transformed countless athletes' lives. And as he puts it, the real victories are found in the lives changed. That philosophy, prioritizing impact over trophies, defines everything about Coach Harry Lumley. I hope you find this conversation as inspiring as I did, and with that, let's now jump into this episode with my friend and mentor, Coach Harry Lumley. But first, I just want to uh say how grateful I am to have had you as my quarterback coach way back in the day in 1990, 1991. But you were one of the kindest coaches that worked with me and you you understood me and you understood the the style of coaching that I needed. So I just wanted to frontload that, uh, but also thank you for taking the time and energy uh to come on the podcast.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I appreciate those kind words.
SPEAKER_00:To set some context for the listeners, you've been coaching a long, long time. So let's just start with who you are, uh where you're from, and give the listeners some insight into when you started coaching and anything you want the listeners to know about you.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I started coaching actually in uh God, I think it was 19. Oh, what was it? About 1961 or 62, and it was because of a problem with uh we had a baseball team and we raised a lot of money selling uh peanuts, and the guy ran off with all the money, and they told us that we were not gonna have a team because we don't have uniforms enough, and I said, Oh no, we're we're having a team. I said, but they said, Well, you gotta have a coach. I was all coach, and I was the same age as everybody else, it was interesting because on that team was Joe Siparoni and Rick Bauer and uh Johnny Basich, I mean a whole bunch of guys from the past, Bruce Ballons, Bobby Radovich, great athletes, around. We all played on the same team. And I said, You guys mind, I'm gonna coach you, but I'm I'm gonna you know do the best I can, and and that's how it started. And that was in baseball, and I went on to do baseball and football at the same time, but I was doing baseball for uh Selects, Roller Canon first, and then the Windsor Selects for a number of years, 22, I think, and I got into football coaching. Funny, I my first job was with Maury Gallagher at Brennan in 1965. He called me up and asked me if I'd come over there. I went over there, and then Godfrey found out I was coaching over there and was mad at me. So he said, Can you come back? And I went there, went back to Herman. That's when I started in Herman in 1967, 66.
SPEAKER_00:So Harry, I want to I want to pause there because for the listeners to set that context, I mean, you're talking you're talking the 60s now. You started uh coaching baseball, and at the time you were a player and you were as old as the your fellow players. So let's just double-click on that moment because I think that's important for the listeners to understand. Like you've you know, devoted your life to coaching, and it's evident from an early age that you wanted to be a coach. And I'm wondering for you, you know, I look at John Wooden, uh, the renowned basketball coach for UCLA, and what he said once was the most powerful leadership tool you have is your own personal example. And when I think of you at that time, so you must have been 18, 19, or 20, however old you were.
SPEAKER_02:But 17, I think, when I started. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so 17. Talk about that moment in time. And did it feel uh like a natural move for you to say you would coach, or did it require uh courage? So just take us through emotionally what was going on for you at that moment and what that was like for you to offer to coach. Did it take courage? Like, what was that like for you?
SPEAKER_02:Well, it there's a whole interesting story that goes with it. I grew up in not the best home. And my brother, I I don't know whether you remember my brother, he was a member of parliament for a number of years, and he's the one that built the engineering building at the University of Windsor and a very powerful multi-millionaire. And when we were kids, the home life was terrible, and we had to uh basically fend for ourselves. I mean, it was it was really bad. We couldn't even eat at home, we had to eat at neighbors' places. And if it wasn't for neighbors and Godfrey Janice and my brother, I don't think I'd have been alive when I was 20. I was in trouble all the time. Uh, even at that young age, I was drinking, I was smoking, I was doing a lot of really dumb things. But I always wanted to help kids because I knew what it was like to not have anything. And I think that's when I made my mind up about coaching and teaching. And I thought, if I can turn one kid around with some positive stuff, because there was nothing up till that point in my life that was positive. I was actually living in a car, sleeping down at Pilat Dock. I bought a car in those days. We didn't have to have a car, I bought it for ten dollars.
SPEAKER_03:Holy shit!
SPEAKER_02:And I drove down to Pilad Dock every night, parked there, wrapped myself in one of those tinfoil blanket type things, and the police would come by every night. Bobby Serbian was one of the policemen, and he played with my brother at Walkerville, and he would he told me, You can't stay here, you're a vagrant. Then he says, You gotta tell every police officer that you're fishing, you're waiting to fish in the morning. So that's what I did for a whole year, year and a half, and then I got up in the morning and oh, well, when the sun came up, whenever it was, and I drove up to a block away from Herman, and I went into Herman, and the caretakers let me go in and shower and shave and everything else, and then I'd leave and walk about three blocks away, and I'd walk in with all the other kids because I didn't want anybody to know what I was doing. Oh wow, and so that was where I got the internal stuff about helping kids and being good to kids, and I I learned it. You know, you give them positive feedback, and it's amazing what some of them will do, and that's basically how it all started.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, Harry, that's amazing, you know. And I I never knew that about you, you know. I just knew you as this, you know, wonderful coach and mentor to me. And like you, I grew up in a very dysfunctional family, and I really struggled to find my own purpose. And uh I always say, you know, having lost a brother to suicide and another brother to drug addiction, I always say that football was my saving grace, you know, and I was an undersized football player, but I could throw the football hard.
SPEAKER_02:You know, and I you could really throw, you had a great arm.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I taught myself, you know, by myself, I would sign out library books because there was, you know, no internet back then. And I signed out books on how to throw and how to punt. And that is what got me out of the house in the spring, the summer, the autumn, the winter. I'd be punting the football. I'd take a snow shovel and clear out a patch and punt the footballs in the winter and then throw at trees and oftentimes by myself. But I found football and that was my saving grace. And it sounds like for you, you were very athletic, but also coaching and a life of service was your saving grace because it gave you the purpose you needed to ultimately make the difference in countless athletes' lives over the years. So, how does that resonate with you?
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's exactly. I mean, your life sounds almost identical to mine. The people in my life that counted the most were coaches. When I entered the Hall of Fame here, I I really praised one of them. It was uh an older guy named Ben Federwick, and he was our hockey coach. And in those days, there was only a couple of arenas around here, Windsor and and uh Riverside and Lansbury. And we used to drive every Sunday, he would take us to Blenheim, and at that time there was no 401 or anything, it was highway two, that's it. Took us almost two and a half hours to get there, and we went every Sunday, he paid for everything so we could practice, and I've never forgotten that man because it was all out of his pocket, driving in his car and a friend of his, uh Mr. Games, and they took us everywhere and got us into Windsor Arena. We used to go in there and skate till three in the morning by ourselves, help clean the ice and everything in Windsor Arena. There was no home life, it was everything with sports, because that's where all the good people that I knew were. So it was all coaches and my brother that just they just took care of me. And I thought, I owe this back, I gotta, you know, move this forward for sure. And that's how I really got going with coaching. And the more I did it, the more I started to see the effect it can have.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and you know, when I think back to those days and and what you were talking about in terms of the the coach that drove you to Blenheim and paid out of his pocket, and you know, you you surrounded yourself with a network of very supportive people. And oftentimes it's it's who we choose to surround ourselves with that determines the quality of our life and relationships. So if we were to backtrack and go back to early days when you started coaching and and you began to develop your your craft, you were obviously very people-centered. So you placed relationships first. So we call that um process-oriented versus product-oriented. Yeah, we can get caught up in product and outcomes, but we have to prioritize the process that produces those results. And for you, it was player-centered. So take us through how, as a coach, you were able to uh develop that skill and to know that that was your most powerful tool.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think I because I was lucky enough to be with Godfrey Janice and Herman, who is a great mentor, uh, helped me out in so many. Well, he let me stay in school, for one thing. I wasn't showing up for school all the time because of the situation at my house. And he he let me stay. I done sometimes I only win on Fridays, you know, just because we had a game, and he let me play, and I I never forgot that because he shouldn't have. But he understood my family, he knew what was going on with my family, so I understood he cared more about me than the game. And what you just said about process, I don't think there's a day goes by when I'm with my kids at Herman, and we go through the whole summer, we do a training session for staying in shape on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday mornings. We talk about the process all the time. It's not anything else, it's the process, and enjoy it. You know, enjoy what whatever we do at the end, it really doesn't matter. But you will win way more than you lose. I I don't know whether you know what we've done here at Herman, but we've won like 27 championships out of the last 33 years. Nobody had ever won more than four, and it was Jerry Phelps who won four in a row back when you guys were there, and now I've I've won 27. We won nine in a row at one stretch, and it's all the kids trust what I say, and they and they believe in what I'm telling them that you can be whatever you want to be. We put a lot of guys, we put a couple guys in the NFL, you interviewed one of Mo Jay, and uh we've done a bunch in the CFL, but I don't even care about that. I tell them every day when we're working out, this isn't about football, this is about your life. If you do what I'm suggesting you do, you're gonna be in great shape. You're gonna get your marks, and all I care about is getting you on to the next level, get to college or university and become something. You know, I bet you oh, probably 10 times in the last 20 years, I've told the story about a guy that threw a football from here to London walking down the highway, and nobody knows what I'm talking about. And I said, This guy played for us at AKO, could kick the hell up because I was a kicker. I don't know whether I ever did tell you that, but that was what I did too in high school. I I was a punter, and I said, I gave him a chance to play the same as everybody else because everybody deserves a chance. And I said he had a great arm, he could punt the daylight syllabus, never complained once, and luckily on that team we had guys, other guys that were just like you, you know, on that team. So I don't know that just when kids know you care about them, you can accomplish so much.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's so true, Harry. And you know, I I became in my career so motivated to pursue my own excellence, you know. Yeah, and I I had to learn because oftentimes I was backup quarterback to amazing quarterbacks like Rick Lachance and Walt Tasman, and you know, all of these amazing quarterbacks. And you know, you you gave me that belief in myself to know that I could do it. And even why I know what you're saying is so true is that even after we parted and I finished playing AKO, so for the listeners, AKO was like a junior league between high school and university for for um players that weren't in university or were in university but didn't want to play university. So it was kind of a in-between uh an excellent league for 18 to 22 year olds. And Harry, when I left there at 22, I had failed out of university because of my own hardship. And uh I played AKO, and then you gave me the belief in myself to go out at 24 years old for the university football team and try giving university another shot. And then I went out and I made the team, and and you would still come back to visit and say hello to me, and we to stay connected. So I know that the relationships that you've developed as a coach, and this is important for the listeners to understand, is that the relationships that we develop in the workplace or on the sport field, they don't end when your time at the company or on the sports team ends. The relationships continue, and you are a testament to that with carrying on those relationships afterwards. So it's not about just using the players and getting the best out of them and then throwing them aside. Those relationships multiply and compound and continue to matter.
SPEAKER_02:You've said it to a T. I'll give you a good example, and you know the man very well. Father Colin. Father Colin and I were people don't know, but we were very close. Uh, he called me every night at 11 o'clock because he knew I'd be watching the news. My wife used to shout, she's well, father's calling you again. And I coached with him with baseball for a number of years. And Father Colin, the one thing I loved about the man, he treated everybody the same. I look now. This city is filled with all of Father Cullen's people that he coached. They're all coaching. Godfrey Janice, myself, uh Jerry Phil. There's so many guys that ended up coaching and were great coaches because of Father Cullen. And I I saw what he did and how he he just the key thing with him was he was a different kind of man, but he was fair. If you deserve to play, you would play. If you deserve not to play, you didn't play. Now he wasn't the the honey type guy, he's not gonna come and tell you how good you are and you can do this, but he always made and he made kids get their marks, which always stayed with me. I mean, we'd be traveling with with a lot of a lot of guys that you know that were great athletes, right? Any meal when all these guys played baseball for me, palzettes, and we'd be trying, we'd be down in New Jersey, and Jerry DeJardin would say, I gotta get my homework done. I said, What do you mean your homework? We're this is summer. He said, Father, call him. He's got an English course we got to get done. And I thought, how beautiful that is. The kid's on his own time, he's out of the country, and here's all these same guys Bruce Walker, all those guys played for me. I got a list of kids who played for me in baseball and football. That's it's a who's who of Windsor athletes, and they still come back and see me and talk to me all the time and say, you know, I mean, they they say, Well, you were the best coach ever. You know, why? Because we won. They didn't realize I didn't know that much about any of those sports. I still to this day don't know that much about football, but I know how to handle people, yes, and that's more important than the X and O's. Anybody can do X and O's, you can grab a book and do that. But I've I've kept that philosophy all my life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Harry, that's beautiful, and I think that encapsulates who you are being uh people-centered. And like you said, the highly technical aspect of any sport, you're gonna have experts, and you're gonna have experts that know it so well that they have difficulty explaining it in a way that players understand, right? And I think uh a big thing there is I'd love to just kind of double-click on that idea of relationships. And when you think about your coaching style and being people-centered and building those relationships, what is your advice to people listening, whether they're a leader of a business, whether they're a coach of a sports team, a parent, whoever it is, like how do you develop the skills and nurture those skills within yourself to be your best for others? And what do you have to let go of within yourself to be able to do that?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I really don't have to let much go because I believe in it so firmly. Like I when I'm with kids, one of the things I tell every team I've ever coached or when I was teaching, never take anything personally. Especially when I'm gonna be telling them they did something wrong. First of all, I'll never send her a kid out. Um, and again, when a kid makes a mistake, who's the first one that knows he made a mistake? Him. They know it. So standing on the side, it used to get me mad when Taffy and Mike would be yelling at kids for making a mistake. And I would say, What are you yelling at them for? They already know they made the mistake. Let's figure out a way to correct it so it doesn't happen again. And what I always do with the kids is I I would always say to Listen, nothing personal. Don't ever take anything I say personal. If I'm saying something to you that you did wrong, remember I'm doing it for your own good. I'm trying to correct it so you don't do it again. Uh, you wouldn't be on my team if I didn't like you. If there was something about you that I didn't like or I had bad feelings about, I probably wouldn't have you. And I've still to this day, I've never cut a kid ever. They cut themselves, the ones that you know uh leave. I've never had to cut them. And I get them, I must have oh, every year 200, 300 kids come back different times to the school, call me at Christmas, uh, send a thing on my birthday, thanking me for what I did. And I really didn't do anything except I listened to them and I gave them positive feedback. And when they were wrong, I told them they were wrong. I you know, like I just I had this thing this morning at 8:30 this morning. Listen to the kids, listen, everybody else is home in bed, all the other teams are home in bed. You're out here, get the most out of it. You're gonna love yourself, and this isn't about football, it's about being in shape for the rest of your life. I'm not trying to cut up anybody, but some of your parents are 200 pounds overweight. Is that what you want to be? You know, in our neighborhood, some of them are on welfare. Is that what you want? And if you don't want it, then listen, just do what I'm telling you to do and get your marks. It doesn't take much. I said this school always bothered me because I was terrible. I got I failed my first year of university, I got kicked out of her. I still never graduated high school. They kicked me out of Herman because I wasn't coming enough. So when I left, I went to four other schools, including Assumption. Father Colin took care of me for a year, but it was just too far to go every day. I had to either walk there or hitchhike there every day. But I I I just knew at some point I'm gonna go back and get all this, but right now I just can't. There was too many things on my plate, and I was very confused with what I was doing. And you know, it sounds like you were doing the same thing when you're younger. I'm looking around and I'm going, my God, this is too much.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, Harry. I I just wanted to sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to say that's that's what happened to me after high school is that you know, I wanted to play golf. I wanted to try out for the golf team because I was a competitive golfer, and it's what drove me and tried out for the golf team, and I made it. And as soon as the season was over, never went to a class because it this the learning didn't matter, it was the sport and the competitiveness and and the purpose that mattered to me and drove me. So I for me, it was like my life was a mess, and all I had was sport. Oftentimes, coaches don't understand or teachers who they're dealing with, who's in front of them. Robin Williams once said, give people a break because you have no idea what they're actually going through.
SPEAKER_02:Oh true.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And when I hear you describe your life and what you went through, you know, I see myself there in my own journey. So I completely understand. And what you talked about is this idea of really listening, the power of listening. And another quote that I want to share with you is from a mentor of mine. And what he says is when we listen with empathy to others' ideas, thoughts, and concerns, we communicate that others' lives are important and meaningful. So true. And so true on the back end, the opposite end is another quote that says, Every word has consequences, every silence, too. So I can't begin to tell you the number of times I was given the silent treatment by coaches. You you were either screamed at or they just ignored you and ghosted you that made you feel worthless, you know. So you developed that skill of deep listening and to uh really help people understand that you were there for them as people first, not as athletes, and then you nurtured them and helped to guide them in their athletic journey, but it wasn't about their performance on the field, it was about their performance in life. So, talk about those ideas and continue to impart any advice to the listeners around that importance of listening and that that quote that I just mentioned every word has consequences, every silence too. So, how do you ensure that you're getting the best of your athletes, student athletes, uh, in a way that allows them to feel psychologically safe, to feel that there's a sense of trust there and a sense of belonging?
SPEAKER_02:Well, one of the things, and we did it this morning. Every kid you can come up with some positive combat, no matter how athletic or unathletic or anything they are. You can we had a kid today couldn't do the the running, he was dying. He was just he wanted to throw up. I said, Go ahead, throw up, go get a drink, whatever. And I said, Listen, you're doing great. And he says, I don't think I am. I said, Well, have you ever done this before this year? He said, No, I said, take my word for it, you're doing great. Everything will work out. I used to get in arguments when I was a guidance counselor at Herman. I used to go to teachers who would kick kids out or give certain kids trouble, and I would go to them and I say, Listen, I'm not allowed to do this because of confidentiality, but I'm gonna do it anyway. You're given such and such a bad time. You couldn't last one minute in this kid's shoes. Have you ever thought about talking to the kid and find out about what his home life's like or what he's going through? Who would know about your one brother committing suicide? You know, nobody would know about that unless you know somebody was close to you, you told them. We had kids at Herman. I remember going into one kid's house who was a great athlete, still around, he's been in a little trouble, but he's gotten out of it now. I went to his house to pick up a baseball uniform, and the mother came to the door, and she was obviously higher than a kite. And there's a little nine-year-old kid behind her who quite obviously is higher than she is, and the smell coming out of that house was down on Tuscarora, and the smell coming out was horrendous because it was piles of cat crap all over the house. And I thought, this kid lives in this every day. And I I went to teachers and I said, You couldn't last a minute, you know, give the cut the kid some slack, and you know, you'll find out he's really a good kid and he's actually very smart, but you'll never find out because you've turned him off completely, you know. And I I I've seen that in um hundreds of cases. I told my son, getting because I'm getting older and not in the greatest of health, I mean gradually throwing things out so they're not stuck with everything. And I I got a couple of things, I got a big portfolio like with letters from people that you know I was gonna commit suicide. You talked me out of it, about 10 or 15 of those, whole bunch of them from parents, you know, saying, you know, you you change the whole makeup of our home. I remember going to a uh a kid's house one time, kid kept coming to school and was getting beat up. I knocked on the door, and this guy came to the door, and he was a fair sized guy, but I mean, I used to box at PAL years ago, so I wasn't afraid of anybody. And I said, Are you whatever the father's name was? And he said, Yeah, why? Who are you? I says, Listen, I'm the guy that's gonna punch the living shit out of you if you ever touch your kid again. As your kids coming to school every day, beat up, and you're doing it, and I'm supposed to be calling children's aid about it, and your son's scared to death, and I'm gonna call children's aid. I said, I'm just telling you right now, and you mark my words, if he ever comes to school like that again, you better not open that door for me because I'm gonna beat the living hell out of you. That kid never got beat up again, he's never forgotten it. He writes me every year. People don't listen to what kids are saying a lot of times or how they're acting. Kids don't like acting out, they want to be a part of a group, that's why they got motorcycle groups and gangs because they just want to be part of something. If you can make it positive, good. Let's make it positive, let's make it a football team or a baseball team or a hockey team, whatever.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's that sense of belonging, you know. And there's a researcher that I interviewed. I really appreciate you sharing that because that really provides some context for the question that I want to ask you and what I want to share with you. There's a researcher that I interviewed uh about six months ago, and his name is Dr. Gordon Flett from York University, and he's now probably 75, close to 80. He's devoted his life to studying the psychology of mattering and the impact that that has on humans. Interesting. Yeah, and so what you're describing, and you're spot on by saying that when kids, you know, these so-called bad kids join bike gangs or uh whatever type of gang, ultimately, if we peel back the lairs, there is a desire to matter and belong. So so yes, they're choosing the wrong group, but then that group embraces, despite their terrible means of whatever they they do to haze and get these kids uh hooked up in these gangs, it it is that sense of mattering and belonging that they're looking for. So, as a teacher or as a coach, to to, as you described, be people-centered, person-centered, and to really uh help that young person feel safe and feel that they belong is what will give them that sense of purpose. And you talk about having suicidal students that you talk them out of it and you gave them that sense of hope and meaning and purpose because you saw something within them and you wanted to highlight that and bring it to their attention so that they began to believe in themselves. And that's all it takes. It just takes one adult to invest a little bit of time in a young person for that person to know that they matter, which can ultimately make such a difference in their lives. So it's really important, it's the the principles of psychology that you're talking about and creating the sense of belonging and mattering and trust. And then you even said when you visited that house that the kid was actually a really good kid and that he was actually really smart, but the conditions were not in place for him uh in school to thrive or to find his genuine meaning in life. Oftentimes it takes people years to find that. But when you have an adult like you, a coach, a teacher, an educator who cares so deeply, imagine the impact that that has on so many young people. So I just wanted to share that and uh ask you your thoughts there.
SPEAKER_02:Well, he was right. If if somebody feels like no matter what I do, I don't matter. I'm not I'm not anything, I'm just here, I exist on this earth, I live in swallow, I'm got I have trouble eating, I don't have a lot of friends. Jerry Carpenter, another guy that went to Assumption. Jerry's 87, he was at my host today with Godfrey. And it was funny, Jerry, when he came to Herman, he was a he was a phys ed teacher at Forrester, then went to uh Kennedy as an athletic director and then came to Herman. We had a lot of those kids, the gothic kids. You know, that that was when Columbine they had the shooting at Columbine, yeah. And we had a lot of them walking around the school with you know different colored hair, the long coats and everything. And I just watched him, he made those kids feel like a million dollars. He would see them come in in the morning, nobody would ever talk to them, and he would be right there at the door saying, How the hell did you do that in your hair? That's a that's a work of art. You should be an artist or something. And he made them feel so good, first of all, by just talking to them, but secondly, by bringing something up that they had done, and they never ever gave him a bit of trouble. They I mean, they would do anything Jerry said, and it taught me a good lesson about all kids, doesn't matter, kids, adults, anything. You if you are feeding out positive images, you're gonna get positive feedback, and it's gonna change them because they realize I don't have to go around moping and crying and whining. I don't know whether you know who Mary Spencer is.
SPEAKER_00:I've heard the name.
SPEAKER_02:She was the uh world boxing champ uh uh for females, and she went to the Olympics in London, and they did a thing in in uh before that in Canada called People Who Made a Difference, and they did a film. Each of the Olympians were asked who made the biggest difference in your lives, and Mary Spencer picked me. Oh, that's amazing, and I didn't coach her or anything. She says the only thing was I she got in a fight one day at school with one of these gothic kids, and the gothic kid had told her, I'm gonna smash your face in. This is a girl, and she knocked them out cold. And the principal was kicking Mary out of school. I went in the office, I said, What the hell are you kicking her out for? She didn't start it. She's a female, you know, who should you know get some you know retribution for this is kind of kicking on her and everything. And she says, When you okay that not and I said I didn't okay it, Mary, you know, I didn't tell you to punch married, I just okayed that I understood the situation. She says, and then I told you that I was I was boxing with Charlie Stewart downtown, and I said, Great for you. She's everybody else was telling me no, girls don't box and I'm too pretty and all that. Well, she ended up going to the Olympics. She said, You always gave me positive feedback about my boxing. Every match I had, you came to my match. She said, I I she got me tickets to go to London. I didn't go because I couldn't at the time. But Van Niferis, I don't know whether you remember Van from that yeah. Well, Van Van flew over. I was supposed to fly over with Van because Van and I are very close friends, and and and you know, we were the ones supporting her, giving her money and everything. There was no reason for anybody to do that for her, and she went on to be a world champion. Now she got beat in the Olympics, but hey, so what? You know, that's she's now boxing again and doing very well again, too.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's amazing! Yeah, yeah. And when you think of you know what what you've gone through yourself and having come from a broken home, and and I've learned this about my past as well is that you know, sometimes we can do what's called a bypass and just bypass all of it and push on. Yep. That worked for me for a long time, but then there was the recurring trauma that was revealing itself, and then I eventually knew that I I had to understand it. So it's not like I had to do deep psychotherapy or anything like that, I just had to have the courage to face it, you know, and it took years. What that looked like for me uh was actually doing my TED talk. So I did a TED talk back in 2017 where I was scared shitless to tell my story. I wasn't scared to get up on the stage and talk because I do a lot of speaking around the world at different events, yeah, but but I was scared to reveal my truth and what I had learned from my truth. And it gave me an opportunity to share my truth in a way that was deeply personal. And why I share that story is that oftentimes when people are impacted by deep trauma in their lives, they bypass and they push on, and that's a coping mechanism. You know, you just push on and you get shit done. And and many people are able to do that, but the research around trauma will say that the body stores trauma and it will be manifested in different ways, whether it be alcoholism or whether it be uh other coping mechanisms, but it's always with you until you develop a relationship with it. And it's that idea of through the darkness we see the light. So, like I said, it doesn't take deep psychotherapy and thousands of dollars of counseling. You just reach a point in your life where you say, Hey, you know what? I was dealt a bad hand of cards, and I understand that I don't have to identify with this. This does not have to define me. So, so my brother committing suicide and my brother dying of drug addiction, and my parents who were alcoholics, that doesn't have to define me. I'm not that because I've done things in my life that have allowed me to move on a new path. But what it comes down to is genuine, deep acceptance, self-awareness, and forgiveness. And when when I was able to do that and to forgive and to understand their perspectives and what they may have been going through that cause them to behave like that, then that's where the comfort and peace comes from. So it's not like suddenly I'm at peace 100% because it I still have to deal with shit. But I've learned to accept and forgive, and that has lifted a burden from my shoulder. So Muhammad Ali once said, God will not place a burden on a man's shoulder, yes, that he yes, that he knows he can't handle. Yeah. So how does that resonate with you, with your journey? And how have you been able to deal with what you went through? Because everybody deals with it differently, but there's no right or wrong. But I just wanted you to um shed some light on that.
SPEAKER_02:Well, for a long time, I I drank way too much. Uh, I drank, I used to drink and fight, so all I like to do was drink and fight, and it got really stupid at times, and uh had a couple of car accidents, and I said, you know, something's gotta change. And what what changed me was when I finally realized that's not me. What what I grew up with has nothing to do with me. My mom left when I was four years old and moved to Florida, and I I just that I didn't do anything, my brother didn't, so we both realized that has nothing to do with us. If he's a drunk and he's a drunk, it's not me. And so, what I've told kids a lot of times, listen, if you don't want to be like your parents are, then do something about it. I'm not holding against you because your dad screams at a football game at me and things. I said, that's got nothing to do with you and I, and it's got nothing to do with you personally. You're a good kid, you can do a lot of things, but don't fall into the trap of you know that welfare trap, as I used to call it, Herman, or five generations in a row. I said, get out and do something. I tell football players that play for me or baseball players all the time when they get scholarships. I tell them, don't come home. Come home to visit your family. Other than that, leave this city because when you come back, you're gonna find the same people in the same hotels, still drinking the same beer and telling the same stories about how good they were. And I says, No, obviously, that's not everybody, it's a generalization, but it's basically true. And if you go and start your own life, and you can do it whatever way you want, whether you are successful at it or not, it doesn't matter, you're doing it on your own. And I I always have promoted that like this is your life, not somebody else's. Don't live because the way they want you to live if you know what's wrong, do what's right, you know. And I've always tried to do the right thing, and sometimes I'm wrong in what I do, then I apologize. That's the other thing I learned in life, too. Is boy, when you're wrong, don't don't try to you know gloss over it. Tell people I made a mistake, it was stupid, I'm not gonna do it again. So that you're teaching them the same thing. Let's let's get on with it. And it's I don't know, I it's been successful for me. I'm getting near the end, you know. I'm 80 years old and um not in the best of health. But then I look and I see the three guys who are here today, Jerry Carpenter, Godfrey Janice, and uh Bobby Marshall, they're all 87. And we were laughing. I said, Hell, did you ever think you're gonna live to be 87? I never thought I would see 40. And here I'm an 80, and we're all gonna perish very soon. You know, let's let's make sure we leave the right legacy and you know do everything as as well as we can right up to the very end. So I I really relate to everything you're saying. It sounds like it's a we're almost in the same life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and I I really appreciate you sharing that. And that's why I wanted to have you on the podcast because I've always wanted to better understand you and to better understand, you know, what gave you so much success as a coach, and and it doesn't surprise me that it goes right back to being people centered in relationships, and and that has a compound effect. It's like compound interest, it will always pay off, and there'll be dips in the stock market where you know people lose money, but the stock market always bounces back. And when we double down on relationships and we invest in people, it's like compound interest, it'll always bounce back. And that is how really that we're meant to serve the world is to ultimately make a difference. And that's what you've done. And when you talked about giving advice to young people saying, you know, you know, get out of Windsor. Well, I'm a living example of that. I never thought yeah, I never thought I would leave Windsor. Windsor was everything to me, my hometown, and the relationships and you know, and golf and in football, and I coached at Assumption. I mean, we coached against each other years ago, decades ago, but it was that idea that I never thought I could leave Windsor and I didn't have the courage to leave. And you know, I'm not religious, but maybe by the grace of God, uh, I found my wife, my girlfriend in in university, and she was studying nursing, and then she's so adventurous, and she's like, I'm going to Japan. And and uh she put nursing on hold, and I was like, What are you talking about? You're going to Japan. Like, I can't leave Windsor. And then I drove away and I was pissed off in my 1984 Honda Accord, and I, you know, hit the accelerator and stones flew up, and I drove down Riverside Drive and I was seething with anger because how could she just leave like that? You know, and then by the time I got to Jefferson Road on the east side, I turned around and I went, Oh god, maybe maybe I need to be more open-minded. And I drove back and said, Can I come see you in Japan?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And uh, I put I was working as a child youth worker at Mer Meryville at the time, which is a young offenders facility.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, I I worked there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and I I told her, I said, Well, is it okay if I come and see you? And she said, Of course. And then suddenly, three months later, I sold my car and I saved as much as I could. And I was I was done football. I graduated, I didn't have football anymore. So suddenly, like, this this purpose is gone in my life. Like, what the hell am I gonna do? Like, I've been identified as a football player my whole life. Now, what do I have? You know, and I was standing at Metro Airport in Detroit, and I'm not afraid to admit, I totally broke down in tears. Yeah, and I called, I called my dad on the payphone and I said, I don't know what I'm doing. You know, like why am I doing this? And he said, just go. And I never came back.
SPEAKER_02:No, and I followed everything you've done. I watched all your movements and the last one to Belgium, and you know what you're doing with your kids and everything. I mean, I thought I find that fascinating because I could never do that. I was right where you were saying you were. This was my security blanket, was here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but then your security blanket was you had a security blanket, which was coaching, and that's what gave you your purpose. So yes, you know, and I think what you're saying metaphorically is yeah, if you leave Windsor, go for it. But ultimately, what you're saying is find that sense of purpose and meaning and whatever that is, and you know, and that was 1997 when we left, and or when I left, and you know, since that time, you know, we lived 10 years in Japan, then we moved to Azerbaijan, then Cambodia, then China and Saudi, and now Belgium. And when I come back to Windsor, it's still nostalgic. And I drive down the 401 to my hometown. I was I had my sons put on Bruce Springsteen's uh My Hometown. Yeah, driving down the 401. You know, I get a little emotional thinking about it, and then coming down the 401 into Windsor. You know, it's always in my heart, it's always my home, and the relationships with uh my Lancer football teammates and uh coaches like you who made such a difference in my life are never going to leave, they'll always be there for me. So there's that sense that I'm still home when I'm here, but now my home is is the world, you know.
SPEAKER_02:So well, and you know the thing is too, you you said something in there, and I remember listening to uh oh, what was it coast North Carolina State when they won the uh NCAA the guy they have the money raising for cancer? Well, I I listened to Jim Velvando with that uh ESPN thing, and he said the most important thing right near the end, and he said, a good day is when you have a real good laugh, you have a real good cry, and now I can't even think of what the third thing is. But when he said the cry part, I've had times in my life where I balled my eyes out overseeing a kid that you know just the home life was horrible, or after a championship game and the kids are all crying, and I'm standing there and I'm saying, look at don't cry. You played your guts out, you gave everything you could, but then I'm starting crying because they're crying. And I realize you you gotta get the emotions up, you gotta laugh every day, and he's right, you had to cry every day.
SPEAKER_00:And I wish I could think of what the third thing was, but um getting old and I forget a lot of things, but but that's the point, and that's the point of accepting emotions, and and those emotions are are really important because you know you can't determine or you you can't classify what's wrong to feel or not as a coach, you know. So if you have a a player who's who's crying because they lost the game, then that's what they have to do. To do in that moment, and then of course, you being empathetic and compassionate, you're drawn to tears in that moment as well, and that's okay. And and uh it's okay for the players to see that it's not about just putting on this tough, brave face with with no emotion, right? So, what you're giving permission to is for real, genuine emotions to be expressed in that moment, and then dealing with them in proactive, empowering ways, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and you know what the kids remember it. We came out of Sarnia one time, we had lost the championship game in Swassa in the last minute, and it was because the kids didn't listen to what we were telling them to do, they started doing things on their own. Okay, fine, you can't do anything about it, it's over and done with. We get on the bus, and I got up at the front of the bus, and just to say, hey, great experience, you gotta learn from it, you know, whatever. You look at your own self, look at yourself in the mirror, and look at what you did. And I was while I was saying I was getting emotional, and I had to stop a few times, and there's a guy now that he comes to our practice every day, Toll Run is his name from Cambodia, and he was a tough football player, he's now a cop in Windsor, and he got up in front of the kids about a week ago and said, I remember Mr. Lumley standing on the bus, and you could tell he was ready to cry, he was choking back ears because we lost, and he felt so bad for us losing. And I thought that was 15 years ago, you know. When that kid remembered that, then I got choked out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that's I think real, genuine authenticity being revealed in that moment, and that's what connects. People are don't often connect only to the words you say, but the way they're said and the emotion behind the words, right? Yeah, and and that's that's what you're describing. And Harry, if we were to think about as we segue to a close, I want you, and I've shared this on my podcast before uh a number of times, but uh Denzel Washington, uh, who I love and adore, I love that man as an actor and as a human. And what Denzel Washington talks about oftentimes is that he purposely puts his slippers before he goes to bed far enough under the bed that in the morning he has to get on his knees and reach for them, and it gives him a chance to pray. Yeah, you know, and I pray every night, and I don't pray to God, I pray for peace and for happiness, and I I extend loving kindness to all the people I know, whatever faces come up, yeah. I I just wish them well, and that's my form of prayer. I don't have to go to Assumption Church because I don't consider myself Catholic anymore. I can go to any church, it's just a a place to give thanks and to give peace. And but what Denzel Washington once said in a commencement speech was uh to the graduating audience was he said, one day when you're on your deathbed, you may be surrounded by the ghosts of unfulfilled potential, and they're gonna be angry and pissed off at you, and they're gonna be hurt because they gave you gifts and talents that you didn't access for whatever reason, and they gave you doors of opportunity that you didn't walk through. And now, as you're laying in your deathbed and the ghosts are surrounding you, they now have to go to the grave with you, feeling unfulfilled and angry and bitter because you never acted on the gifts they gave you. So it was it was a real metaphor for God will bless us with many gifts in life, and our job is to have the courage to act on them. And what Florence Nightingale, the nurse, the famous nurse, once said is nothing can be achieved in the spirit of fear. And so many people give into fear and settle for comfort and stay within their comfort zone. How true that is, and they never truly reach their potential, and that's what Denzel Washington says. So now they have to go to their grave being surrounded by these ghosts of unfulfilled potential. So I'm not trying to be morbid, Harry, because I hope that our world is blessed with uh many more years with you. But when you face that moment, how will you know that you're not surrounded by ghosts of unfulfilled potential? What will your the evidence of your life be that will give you peace and comfort knowing that you made the difference you desire?
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's funny because I just went, you know what what made is a the assisted suicide in Canada. It's called MAID, and my brother went through it, and a couple of people I know I just went three weeks ago to IODE, met two doctors because I want to be, I want that to happen to me. And the main reason is two reasons. One was Father Colin once asked me when we were on a plane flight to Edmonton, he said, Do you believe in God? And I looked at him and I said, Father, it's a hard question to ask me. You know, I just wondered. I said, Look, I have belief in there's a higher being, whether that be God or Allah or Buddha, I don't care who it is. And I said, I sure as hell don't need to go see a priest to talk to him for me when I can talk to him myself. And he's that's a good answer. I said, No, but I mean it sincerely. There's a lot of bad priests, father, and you know it. They've done a lot of bad things. I am not bowing down to a man, you know, when I know there's a powerful being out there that's kind of dictating kind of my life. So when I went two or three weeks ago to this guy, one of the questions they have to ask you, are you religious? And I says, Well, it depends what you think is religion. I says, I think I am, but not in the way that you probably are. I have a lot of beliefs. And I says, one of the things I I really don't want to do, I don't want to burden my family when I die. I don't want to be stuck in a home with four walls and a TV, and I don't want my son or my daughter or somebody carrying me to the bathroom and have to wipe my ass after I go to the bathroom. And I said, I think I'm doing that as a good thing so that nobody has to worry about. And I want to be able to say, if you want to talk to me and you got anything to say to me, you better do it by Tuesday at five o'clock because I'm checking out. And my brother just finished doing it um four weeks ago, five weeks ago, and it was so peaceful, it was so good. All these kids were there, he talked to each one of them. Um, it was wonderful. So, as far as you know what my religion is or what my beliefs are, my main belief has always been in me. I believe in the power I have to do things, and I don't mean by making money or anything, but how I can help somebody else. And I've all I've always realized to make money, the easiest way to make money, help somebody else make money. If you help somebody else make money, it'll come back to you. Everything comes back. Whatever you put out in the in the universe is gonna come back somehow, good or bad. And I and I always firmly believe that. And everybody thinks I'm crazy. Well, not everybody, but a lot of people think because I don't care. You got your life, you live it the way you want. I know how I'm gonna live it. That's why I really didn't want to do this interview. The only reason I'm doing it, this podcast, is because I've seen your work and I know how you take it seriously, and and you've you've done remarkable things with the people that you've done it with. The one book, the first book you told me to get, oh, I can't even remember what it is now. I read part of it and I haven't even finished it, but I got a lot out of just starting it. I and that was when you did the OJ thing. Yeah, and you mentioned a book, but I've always followed, and and Matt Kaplan I know follows you quite a bit. He's a good friend. You know, I just I like your work, and I and I I appreciate what how you handle people and the world. And and I and when I was telling uh my daughter today I was doing this, I said, this is a worldwide thing he does.
SPEAKER_00:This isn't some Mickey Mo thing, this is he has had some of the greatest people on earth on his podcast, and I've enjoyed everyone, so yeah, Harry, I appreciate that, and that's why I'm so grateful um to have had the chance to speak with you and to share your your story that that is very powerful, and you know, 60 years of coaching, so that's incredible, and that is a true testament to who you are and what you've given the world. And you imagine the the people that you've coached over the years, uh going back 60 years, and you imagine the impact and influence you've had, and that doesn't just stop at that person because that person has the courage to live their life and have a family and have children and to pass on lessons. And it's like uh throwing the the rock in the pond or the pebble in the pond and the ripple effect will continue long after you're gone, and it is a genuine honor, I and I mean that uh from the bottom of my heart to be able to speak to you. And I do take my work seriously, and the biggest thing that I devote myself to is shining the light on others, and through that I find hope and I find meaning and continued purpose, and uh so it means a lot to me uh because I know I've asked you to come on for a while, and it means a lot to me that you said yes and that we made this happen. And I go back to 1991 when I was going through terrible stuff in my life, and you were the one who gave me confidence as an undersized quarterback. It wasn't about football, it was it was it was about giving me confidence in myself that would transcend football, and I would be able to apply it everywhere and to anything I do. And I never thought that there would be an end to football, and that's what many athletes fail to realize is there is an end to your playing days, and that when your playing days end, you have to live with real purpose, and that's what uh OJ has done, you know, having him on the podcast. And I purposely devoted a length of that podcast, uh, an amount of time in that podcast, talking about what you meant to me. And he echoed my words, you know, and he shared so many stories about the impact you had on him, and he went on to be an amazing DB in the NFL for years, you know. Um, but it's not about football, it's about creating these individuals that go on to make a difference, and you have so much evidence of that in your life, and I really want to shine the light on that as we close, is I wouldn't be doing this podcast, you know. You we you were my coach for two years during that time, and that was in the 90s, but yet I'm still compelled to stay connected and reach out because that's the impact you had. So I hope you really feel those words and that they sink into your heart and you you really understand that.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, Andy, and and I mean this so sincerely people ask me all the time, why are you still coaching? Your your health's bad. I mean, I almost died two days after the championship in November. And I shouldn't have been on the field. I knew it. My daughter's a doctor, she told me you should be in the hospital, and I was the next morning. You rushed me in my ambulance. The reason I keep doing it and I tell people is exactly what you said when you texted me about that I made a difference in your life. Those things championships, anybody can win championships. We've won more. I keep telling the kids you're not gonna be here next year. I'm still gonna be here going after more championships, but I don't even care. Anybody can do that, coach. It's how you relate to people. And when you said that to me, that was what changed my mind about that I made a difference in your life. Because that is the most important part of my coach. I made a list up today, real quick, and there's like 200 names on it, and they're the best athletes ever in the city of Windsor. And I coached them all, and there's not one of them that I put on that list that hasn't thanked me. When I pushed you in the strong, yeah. Oh, my wife's my wife's getting mad at me now because I'm too loud under her, she's going to sleep.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, you know, she'll sleep well tonight knowing that uh that you uh you you were able to really unpack your life story, uh, hopefully in a meaningful way in this podcast. So, Harry, I I really want to thank you for your time, and I uh I look forward to staying connected with you. And um, yeah, I really want to thank you for your time today and your willingness to come on the show.
SPEAKER_02:Well, thank you, Andy. And next time you're in Windsor, please look me up and we'll go for lunch.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that sounds great.
SPEAKER_02:I'm going to Belgium.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um, okay, so I'm gonna close off the show, but stay on the line. Okay. And uh I'll just say goodbye to you after. So everybody, thank you very much for listening to this episode with a longtime friend and mentor of mine, Harry Lumley. And I hope you come back to listen to future episodes.
SPEAKER_01:You gotta get down to get up again. Treat your mother like she's made to go. After all, she brought you here. If your lost goes to the ocean, you will always help you still And you will be stronger than one You will not do everything You still have the wheel You get up to get up, they get up again You get the gate up again, the kid I will be weaker than I am now. I still won't know everything. When I'm passing up and over the cloud, I hope you all have learned from me. Today I will be stronger than you all know.